Legality of putting concealed carrier in handcuffs during a traffic stop

[max384]

Hey all, it's been a couple of years since I've logged in here. I'm having a discussion on Facebook with a police officer about a guy we both know who was stopped at a traffic stop on his motorcycle. He was frisked, put in handcuffs for twenty minutes, and his legally owned weapon was taken from him (he has his LTCF) because they couldn't determine ownership when they ran the serial number on their illegal database. They confiscated his weapon and he didn't get it back until the next day.

Anyhow, this post I have issue with. This is from the police officer in the discussion (who was not involved in the traffic stop at all):

I would speak to a lawyer. I do believ they have the right to take it until they can prove who's it is. 1st I assume it was a legal stop. You were speeding. 2nd You told them you had a pistol. Sorry folks but you're gonna get cuffed at this point. I don't know you and you don't know me. 3rd of course they took the weapon off you. If the computer is down they may not be able to verify who's it is. Thus confiscated until later and returned to you when all is well. Sorry don't think he has a case unless the traffic stop was illegal. But they didn't cite or arrest him for anything(I think) and he got the weapon back. All is well.

Can they legally cuff someone simply for having a gun in their possession? If not, could somebody provide case law or law cite? Thanks.

[brad5452]

IANAL but I'd say they can't do that because they don't have reasonable suspicion that it wasn't his. Think of it this way. If he had a cell phone on him and they took that from him and cuffed him because it might not be his, would it be legal? Of course not, so why would a gun be any different?

[flyingjunkie]

While I don't know the legality of the LEOs actions, I do know that I would be talking to a lawyer following that. The database is not only incomplete, but the possession of an LTCF "allows" a person to borrow a firearm. So unless a crime preventing possession of a firearm is commited (which does not include summary traffic offenses), the possession of the firearm that is not "registered" to you is completely lawful. If their computer is down or the incompleteness of their database prevents them from being able to acquire the information they want, too bad for them. Give me back my firearm and leave me alone!

[BimmerJon]

Cops publicize their stupidity, hypocrisy and ignorance so well

Quote:
I would speak to a lawyer. I do believ they have the right to take it until they can prove who's it is. 1st I assume it was a legal stop. You were speeding. 2nd You told them you had a pistol. Sorry folks but you're gonna get cuffed at this point. I don't know you and you don't know me. 3rd of course they took the weapon off you. If the computer is down they may not be able to verify who's it is. Thus confiscated until later and returned to you when all is well. Sorry don't think he has a case unless the traffic stop was illegal. But they didn't cite or arrest him for anything(I think) and he got the weapon back. All is well.

Based on this "logic", we should be able to disarm, handcuff and arrest all armed cops...



For our safety....

[Totez]

Everything you consent to is legal.

No consenty - no legaly

Now you may be forced and thus comply under duress but without consent you have a legal leg to stand on when you sue them.

IANAL

[Mattintaylor]

Cops publicize their stupidity, hypocrisy and ignorance so well



Based on this "logic", we should be able to disarm, handcuff and arrest all armed cops...



For our safety....

Especially if we have our dogs with us..... I wouldnt want an armed police officer anywhere near my dog. They just shot another dog in west pittston yesterday

[BB MBD]

Also its good to have some funds to pay for a lawyer.

[JenniferG]

I thought gun registration was illegal in Pennsylvania? How is it they can look up on a database to see if the gun is registered to you? What if I inherited the gun from my Grandmother when she died. I never registered it and didn't have to. Now because it doesn't show up on an illegally kept database they can confiscate my Colt SAA grandma used while serving along with GSP in Sicily because it isn't registered to me. Riddle me that one Batman.

[internet troll]

" 3rd of course they took the weapon off you. If the computer is down they may not be able to verify who's it is. Thus confiscated until later and returned to you when all is well. "

By that logic, they can take your cell phone because they don't know it's yours.

They can take your sneakers, because they don't know they are yours.

They can take that $100's in your wallet, because they don't know it's yours.


Pretty much, using the logic the cop in the OP presented, they can take anything they want because they don't know it's yours. But some people seem to think its alright to take your possessions because it's a gun? Does not make sense to me. Theft is theft, and if they are taking what is legally yours without any reason a crime has been committed with it is theft in my book. What if they can't prove its yours the next day?

As others have said, there is no complete database in Pa. Bought a gun while living in another state, probably not in there. Inherited the gun, possibly not in there. Owned the gun for many years, possibly not in there....and so on.

I hope the person has the means, patience and personality to make a big deal out of this. It's like ants, get a couple in the kitchen, crush them when you see them and there is a good possibility that you won't get anymore ants in the kitchen. See the ants, don't bother to crush them and they bring back a bunch more of ants.

Hold cops accountable for their actions now to hopefully crush future acts of bad behavior. imo

The police should be there to work with/for citizens and not treat them like criminals until there is reason to believe that they are a criminal. A person speeding is not enough to take and confiscate their possession just because....imo


All the above said are just thoughts though, I am sure others know the complete legalities better than I do.

[Curmudgeon]

I'll just leave this here...

http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=57