LEO + OC - I am going to get a lot of flak...

[Tokamak]

I expect a lot of flak for this post but in my opinion I did the right thing.

I am not going to get specific but I was in the Pittsburgh area open carrying when I entered a store. I encountered a suburban police officer hired for security at the entrance. I heard, “Whoa, Whoa, Whoa what is going on here!” and saw the officer looking at my weapon.

He said, “Are you a police officer?” Now I know that saying yes to that inquiry falsely is a crime so naturally I said, “No.” He said “Are you a constable or something?” Again I said “No.” Finally he said, “Do you have a carry permit” to which I said, “Yes, but it really does not matter, in PA you can open carry.”

He said, “Well that permit is for concealed carry and you have to cover that weapon – it is a public safety issue. And I want to see your permit and driver’s license.” I said, “You really do not have a right to demand to see my carry permit.” He said, “Oh yes I do when you are carrying open like that.”

Now here is where I am going to take flak. I said, “Ok, I think you are wrong but I will cover my gun with my shirt and here is my permit and driver’s license.”

He looked over my permit and license and said, “Ok, but you can’t just walk around with that gun in the open even if you have a carry permit. I am not trying to infringe on your second amendment rights – I am a firm believer in them. I used to have a carry permit myself before I became an officer.” And that ended the encounter.

Here is my reasoning on what I did and what I am going to do next. In my opinion, I always comply with an LEO’s request even if they are dead wrong and deal with the wrongness of the situation later. In doing so, I defuse the situation rather than escalate it. This way, I do not appear to be some kind of crank with an axe to grind. And in this case, in fact, the officer wound up treating me like a dumb cousin rather than an adversary or looney.

My next step is to write to his chief. I am not going to identify the officer, but I am going to describe the encounter. I am going to diplomatically advise him of the law and tell him he might want to pass the correct information on to his officers. I am going to include one of the flyers from this website (I love those PA gun rights flyers)

What do you think? Please hold the flames down to sub-napalm levels

[Asterix909]

you did what you wanted to do.
Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you have to not do it.
Thats the beauty of FREEDOM.

[CommonHighrise]

You handled the situation in a professional, curteous, and well-informed manner. Cant give you much flak for that. Yeah, wed all like to be hard-nosed libertarians during every LEO encounter, but I can understand sometimes just wanting to shut them up so you can get on with your day.

[normanvin]

It seems that he was acting out of line. You said he was leo hired as a security guard. That would make him an off dutty leo. Correct?


I would also write a letter to the store explaining what happened.
Would it hurt to also write a letter to the local DA?

[jahwarrior72]

nah, you did alright. the only thing i'll say is that you shouldn't have said "think you're wrong"; you knew he was wrong, and should have said so. but i understand that uniform encounters may fluster some people. no flak from me.

[mpi]

I had a very similar encounter in the south hills area some time ago, i declined to show him my id and declined to cover. he tried to intimidate me and i asked to speak to the manager, i explained what his guard [off duty leo] was trying to do, I.E. earn a lawsuit. i then asked him if he wanted me to leave his property and he said not if i wanted to shop. he then took the LEO [guard] into the back room for a few minutes and when he came back out the leo [guard] stared daggers at me but didn't say a word. i bought my stuff and left.

[mjfletcher]

Only other thing I'd do is also include a copy of the Leo Training memo: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...ft-page-2.html

As to the encounter, I see no fault in the way you handled the situation. You did what you felt was right for you at that moment in time, and are following up on it. It would have been nice if you'd had one of the flyers on you to offer him after you'd defused the situation, especially since he said right out he supports your 2A rights, he probably would have been accepted it without a hassle. You might want to consider printing one up and offering him one next time you see him.

[WhiteFeather]

I think you did fine, other than not having a copy of Pa Patriot flier to hand the officer at first contact.

You should follow up with a letter to this officer chief or better yet make an appointment to speak directly with the chief with lots of Pa Patriot’s fliers.

If everyone does their little part to promote our rights, whether is by education, writing letters, talking to the elected reps etc…. EVERYONE wins….

You don’t do our cause any good IF you make a negative effect on the LEO at first contact, just because you can push them around as a public servant with the letter of the law.

I have had more police officers “that really are on our side” tell about all the jerk off's that were just inside the law, but had a bad attitude about them exercising there firearm rights, that the officer would have gladly gave them a ticket or arrested them for anything they could have just because they were rude to officer when they shouldn’t or didn’t have to be.

Using honey is always a effective means to influence people, being nasty or rude to a LEO that doesn’t know the laws on firearms any better than most people do. Take these contacts points as a public relation job on your part or be ready to deal with a bad negative encounter..........

Not all police are anti-gun or against gun ownership, I realize there is still that US versus Them attitude that rampant in lots police officers mindset, but we have to win their hearts and minds of these rank in file officers to achieve the long term goals of reversing the media bias against gun owners…..

[lildobe]

At least tell us the store, so I can go OC there

[mjfletcher]

Uh oh, lildobe wants to play in their yard now...