Magistrates office

[normanvin]

I had to go to the magistrates office today. It got me to thinking about the lockers at a court house. This made me wonder if you can carry at the magistrates office. There police officers there, and they were all armed.


Are we allowed to carry in a magistrates office?
Does anyone have any input?

[Swarner793]

Uh, are you kidding?

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...n-hearing.html

Be safe.

Scott

[normanvin]

Uh, are you kidding?

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...n-hearing.html

Be safe.

Scott

Yeah I guess your right. But why were the leos allowed to carry there?

[jahwarrior72]

i was wondering the same thing. i have a hearing there at the end of the month, for that traffic ticket. no metal detectors, no sheriffs, but armed LEOs walking around.

[Swarner793]

It is one of the listed exceptions:
(c) Exceptions.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) The lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent or employee of the United States, the Commonwealth or a political subdivision who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of any violation of law.
(2) The lawful performance of official duties by a court official.

(3) The carrying of rifles and shotguns by instructors and participants in a course of instruction provided by the Pennsylvania Game Commission under 34 Pa.C.S. § 2704 (relating to eligibility for license).

(4) Associations of veteran soldiers and their auxiliaries or members of organized armed forces of the United States or the Commonwealth, including reserve components, when engaged in the performance of ceremonial duties with county approval.

(5) The carrying of a dangerous weapon or firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper by an attorney who seeks to employ the dangerous weapon or firearm as an exhibit or as a demonstration and who possesses written authorization from the court to bring the dangerous weapon or firearm into the court facility.


Be safe.

Scott

[pirateron]

Yeah I guess your right. But why were the leos allowed to carry there?

Because LEO's are above the law. Who's gonna question them about carrying there? They outright lie in those magistrate hearings (terminology there is a joke), they walk back in the magistrates office before/after the "hearing." It's all a friggin joke. Your outcome is decided on how drunk the magistrate got the night before and whether or not he got laid.

[jahwarrior72]

CHAPTER 9. INCHOATE CRIMES

§ 901. Criminal attempt.
§ 902. Criminal solicitation.
§ 903. Criminal conspiracy.
§ 904. Incapacity, irresponsibility or immunity of party to solicitation or conspiracy.
§ 905. Grading of criminal attempt, solicitation and conspiracy.
§ 906. Multiple convictions of inchoate crimes barred.
§ 907. Possessing instruments of crime.
§ 908. Prohibited offensive weapons.
§ 909. Manufacture, distribution or possession of master keys for motor vehicles.
§ 910. Manufacture, distribution or possession of devices for theft of telecommunications services.
§ 911. Corrupt organizations.
§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
§ 913. Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.

§ 913. Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.
(a) Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if he:

knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility; or
knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility with the intent that the firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime.

(b) Grading.--

Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), an offense under subsection (a)(1) is a misdemeanor of the third degree.
An offense under subsection (a)(2) is a misdemeanor of the first degree.
An offense under subsection (a)(1) is a summary offense if the person was carrying a firearm under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) or 6109 (relating to licenses) and failed to check the firearm under subsection (e) prior to entering the court facility.

(c) Exceptions.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

The lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent or employee of the United States, the Commonwealth or a political subdivision who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of any violation of law.
The lawful performance of official duties by a court official.
The carrying of rifles and shotguns by instructors and participants in a course of instruction provided by the Pennsylvania Game Commission under 34 Pa.C.S. § 2704 (relating to eligibility for license).
Associations of veteran soldiers and their auxiliaries or members of organized armed forces of the United States or the Commonwealth, including reserve components, when engaged in the performance of ceremonial duties with county approval.
The carrying of a dangerous weapon or firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper by an attorney who seeks to employ the dangerous weapon or firearm as an exhibit or as a demonstration and who possesses written authorization from the court to bring the dangerous weapon or firearm into the court facility.

(d) Posting of notice.--Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each courthouse or other building containing a court facility and each court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a)(1) with respect to a court facility if the notice was not so posted at each public entrance to the courthouse or other building containing a court facility and at the court facility unless the person had actual notice of the provisions of subsection (a).

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the building containing the court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d).

(f) Definitions.--As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Court facility."
The courtroom of a court of record; a courtroom of a community court; the courtroom of a district justice; a courtroom of the Philadelphia Municipal Court; a courtroom of the Pittsburgh Magistrates Court; a courtroom of the Traffic Court of Philadelphia; judge's chambers; witness rooms; jury deliberation rooms; attorney conference rooms; prisoner holding cells; offices of court clerks, the district attorney, the sheriff and probation and parole officers; and any adjoining corridors.
"Dangerous weapon."
A bomb, grenade, blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife (the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism or otherwise) or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose.

by the highlighted section, it seems that, by law, they should be providing a secure area. maybe you should call ahead and let them know you'll be needing one.

but, i wouldn't count on them cooperating.

[Swarner793]

Here in Lycoming County some of the County Judges (Common Pleas) do not permit LEOs (other than the Sheriff's Staff) to carry, some do. I was in one of the Judge's Clerk's Office for an unrelated matter when a new City Police Officer came in to the Clerk's Office before entering the Courtroom. I knew this particular Judge was one that did not appreciate having firearms in his Courtroom, so I stated to the Officer, "Hey, you may want to go check that at the DA's Office before going in". He was rather snippy and responded, to the effect, "I don't think so, that does not apply to cops". I smiled and said "good luck with that." A few moments later he walked out, a little flushed. I smiled and said "DA is one floor up" as he walked by. I have come to know this Officer pretty well and sometimes he still brings it up

Be safe.

Scott

[Mtbkski]

But there is more to the Magistrates Office. The whole building isn't considered a court house is it?

I called my local magistrate, and he informed me that if you were coming there he did not have lockers, but would place my pistol in his personal file cabinet and lock it.

Now if I step in to do business at the windows, am I in violation? I'm not there for a hearing, maybe I am paying a speeding ticket that I am pleading guilty to and just want to pay it. Can I carry in there to do this?

[Swarner793]

But there is more to the Magistrates Office. The whole building isn't considered a court house is it?

I called my local magistrate, and he informed me that if you were coming there he did not have lockers, but would place my pistol in his personal file cabinet and lock it.

Now if I step in to do business at the windows, am I in violation? I'm not there for a hearing, maybe I am paying a speeding ticket that I am pleading guilty to and just want to pay it. Can I carry in there to do this?

Lycoming County Sheriff Charles Brewer advised me that it applies to the entire Courthouse, or in this case the District Court Building, because of the wording at the end "and adjoining corridors". Since my livelihood depends on not getting in trouble and maintaining my RKBA, I do not have the balls to test it.

Be safe.

Scott