PA Stop & Identify

[Wynder]

I know that PA doesn't have a written stop & identify statute, but I was wondering you're you're legally obligated to provide an officer when he asks for your identification in a situation that doesn't involve a motor vehicle.

[Pa. Patriot]

If your engaged in a licensed activity (driving/CC'ing, etc) you need provide the license upon demand.

Otherwise, not so much

What happens if you deny showing paper ID when it's not required? My guess is that denying ID may get you hassled but there is no legal recoursethat I am aware of (IANAL) that an overzealous LEO could make stick.

[Wynder]

So, if you're OC'ing and a LEO demands to see your LTCF, you're not under obligation to provide it?

Regarding verbal ID -- name, address, destination? Or is that not specified?

[LittleRedToyota]

I know that PA doesn't have a written stop & identify statute, but I was wondering you're you're legally obligated to provide an officer when he asks for your identification in a situation that doesn't involve a motor vehicle.

it is my understanding that, if you are not in a moving vehicle, you only have to provide ID if you are being detained (if you are in a moving vehicle and you are stopped by the police, you are automatically being detained).

further, in order to detain you, the officer must have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that you are committing, are about to commit, or have just committed a crime. however, there are officers who pride themselves on being able to fabricate RAS outta thin air.

if you are not being detained, you are free to just walk away and/or ignore the officer. (if the officer commands you to not leave, then you are, by definition, being detained and he needs to have RAS.)

IANAL, but that is my understanding of it...i'm pretty certain that is correct. however, defining RAS is very subjective.

[Wynder]

it is my understanding that, if you are not in a moving vehicle, you only have to provide ID if you are being detained (if you are in a moving vehicle and you are stopped by the police, you are automatically being detained).

further, in order to detain you, the officer must have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that you are committing, are about to commit, or have just committed a crime. however, there are officers who pride themselves on being able to fabricate RAS outta thin air.

These are the conditions that define the circumstances under which a LEO may detain you; however, there's nothing in those court rulings that specifically state that ID must be provided, not that a person even have to carry an ID if they're simply walking down the street.

Delaware, for instance, has specific laws that state a person must verbally give the officer their name, address and business abroad. No offense, rather than taking someone's word, I'm definitely looking for a cite of case law or an actual statute that specifically spells out what's required.

[HiredGoon]

So, if you're OC'ing and a LEO demands to see your LTCF, you're not under obligation to provide it?

If you're open carrying, you don't NEED a LTCF at all... unless you're in a vehicle, in Philadelphia or in a declared emergency.

[Wynder]

If you're open carrying, you don't NEED a LTCF at all... unless you're in a vehicle, in Philadelphia or in a declared emergency.

I understand that, but I'm waging that, if you're stopped by a LEO while open carrying, one of the first few things out of his mouth is going to be, "Let me see your permit." If he makes that demand, are you compelled to provide it if you have it?

[Pa. Patriot]

If you're open carrying, you don't NEED a LTCF at all... unless you're in a vehicle, in Philadelphia or in a declared emergency.

Yep, exactly.
Refer to my original reply.
If your OC'ing where you need the LTCF, like a vehicle, you need to produce the license. On foot other than Phila, no. You have no obligation to produce the permit.

[Pa. Patriot]

I understand that, but I'm waging that, if you're stopped by a LEO while open carrying, one of the first few things out of his mouth is going to be, "Let me see your permit." If he makes that demand, are you compelled to provide it if you have it?

In a word. No

[Pa. Patriot]

it is my understanding that, if you are not in a moving vehicle, you only have to provide ID if you are being detained (if you are in a moving vehicle and you are stopped by the police, you are automatically being detained).

further, in order to detain you, the officer must have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) that you are committing, are about to commit, or have just committed a crime. however, there are officers who pride themselves on being able to fabricate RAS outta thin air.

if you are not being detained, you are free to just walk away and/or ignore the officer. (if the officer commands you to not leave, then you are, by definition, being detained and he needs to have RAS.)

IANAL, but that is my understanding of it...i'm pretty certain that is correct. however, defining RAS is very subjective.

Yes, I beliee this is correct. And "required ID" for non licensed activities (walking down the street) is only verbal.