FYI senate judiciary committee hearing on HB1845

**WhiteFeather** · May 14th, 2008, 07:16 PM

FYI PAFOA Harrisburg UPDATE senate judiciary committee hearing on HB1845

Kim Stolfer , Harry Schneider, a couple other Pro-gun activist and me took the day off from work and went to Harrisburg on May 12, 08 lobbying the senators in judiciary committee for passage HB 1845 with the three PRO Gun amendments that was approved by the house as written.

They are the following

DNCR can not regulate LTCF permits is PA state parks contrary to statutory law. (HB 1292)

Prohibition of governor from confiscating Firearms or ammunition from Citizens during any disaster (like what happen after the Katrina hurricane) (HB 1145)

Emergency issue LTCF (valid for 90 day) with a court order PFA(HB 1160) . – This is the one the PA Coalition Against Domestic Violence (anti-gun) really don’t like this amendment and are fighting to remove it from bill

SEE PDF with their anti-gun BS and total fabrication and our counter talking points that Kim quickly put together to fight their last minute objection.

We are trying to re-write one of the anti-gun amendments that also passed the house.

The word we got, there was a couple of additional AG amendments that were going to be attached to HB 1845 in the Senate.

Also a senator is going to be filing the same lost and stolen amend that lost in the house. So really what would be the point to adding it again

Plus the assault weapon ban SB-48 was going to be added as a amendment – much more severe than the 1994 federal that has expired

From ACSL bill review
http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/pa_p...egislation.htm

SB 48 - Assault Weapon Ban, prohibition, registration, penalties (Amend 18 Pa.C.S.)
This is an extremely bad bill. It will make it illegal to possess a huge number of common firearms now owned and used by NRA competitive shooters and many other law abiding gun owners in PA. This bill makes the following unlawful:

1) To own, use, possess or sell an unregistered “assault weapon”.

2) Any accessory such as any detachable magazine over 10 rounds, barrel shroud, folding stock, thumbhole stock, telescoping stock, muzzle break or muzzle compensator. These parts described above are defined as “conversion kits”. Possession of conversion kits or components carries the penalty of first degree felony.

3) To keep your “assault weapon” you MUST register it with the state police every year, pay a registration fee every year and undergo a complete background check every year. You will be required to safely and securely store “assault weapons” pursuant to regulations. You will be legally permitted to use the “assault weapon” only on your property or duly licensed firing range.

When transporting an “assault weapon,” you will only be allowed to travel directly to and from certain locations (without intermittent stops) and with special storage requirements.

Your registered “assault weapon” will have zero resale value, as you will be banned from selling, trading or transferring it. Someone will be allowed to inherit it provided they comply with all the above requirements within 30 days. The only way to dispose of your “assault weapon” will be to turn it over to the state police for destruction or permanent disabling so that it is incapable of discharging a projectile. Note: the state police will be allowed to perform a compliance inspection at your home once a year to ensure that you are not violating any provision of this law. If you are found in violation, the penalty is a third degree felony.

Actual text of SB 48 can be read here http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...type=B&BN=0048

HB 1845 was pulled from consideration that morning by leadership right before the judiciary committee hearing. It was promised to us to it have back up for a committee vote in June “sometime”. When we know for sure and what amendments are going to be attached, we will let you know what action need to be taken and who to contact in the senate.
The Three PG amendments would be excellent crime prevention tools for the Citizens of PA, IF we can get them enacted into law.

We also stopped into speaker of the house office and asked specifically about HB 641 the castle doctrine. We talked with his chief of staff about it, he also is a big time fellow gun owner as well, he boss was speaking on the house floor at the time so no personal contact was possible at the time. No date set other than a general promise from our April 7 rally for a May vote in the house on HB 641.

After the legislators finished for the day at the capital.

We were invited to a NRA sponsored social function with legislators, so we spent more time lobbying in an informal setting talking with lots of Reps about pending PG legislation and politics around the country in general.

Well with what happen to PA Patriot OC incident and Citizens trying to eat a peaceful dinner together in fellowship. I did my part as a PAFOA member, by opening up the informal discussion about Open Carrying of firearms in PA. Some Reps had no idea this was legal in PA, I used other Reps to educate them, one of the best on the subject a Rep that was former DA that always helps out us on PG issues. He correctly laid in detail how it was perfectly legal to OC while on foot. Some Reps gave all the hype about people calling out the swat team and people dialing 911, dogs and cats living together and mast hysteria would ensue if some OC in public. The usual rest of the crap about OC as other people in general the public always seem to express from lack of knowledge or education on the firearm laws.

Lots of Reps that personally know me from working with them over the years asked IF I engage in the OC practice. I told them Yes I do and have done so for 20 some years in limited places where I feel its prudent, that I personally believe it puts me at a tactical disadvantage, losing eliment of suprise and dealing with firearm retention in crowded places. That I don’t have to make a political statement by OC, but I do fully support other responsible Citizen’s rights to engage in the legal practice of OC and that I think they would be better of talk with you directly instead. (meaning reps that I was talking with at the time).

The legislators are the same as anyone else is this state, people have NO IDEA WHAT THE FIREARM LAW ARE or most other laws as well. Probably because we have way too many stupid laws for anyone to possibly know what they all are any more, that includes the police, lawyers, DA and judges as well.

I even got PA attorney generals ear briefly about OC with about the half dozen items that I also covered with Tom Corbett before he had to leave. What I always like about Tom Corbett he always gives us unpaid volunteers Pro-gun people extra time to chat with over subjects like OC that matter to us. Same thing applies to legislators, they know you are not paid to lobby them and it usually cares extra weight with them and numerous Reps have told me that over the years, its what makes us better, more effective, we fight with our hearts and minds not to for a paycheck and it shows.

We also used our time to discuss with key legislators at the possibility of introducing legislation to deal with business posting NO FIREARM ALLOWED sign for liability factor, a corporation policy or because they are ant-gun.

In PA the way they use these post signs against gun owners is they charge you with criminal defiant trespassing, which is a misdemeanor one offensive and upon conviction means no more firearms ownership for you. There is case law in PA to support the use of this of any sign posted within 10 feet of entrance of place of business, there is other case law to support this with non-firearm related item such as union picketing, handing out solicitation material where posting against it. So there is lots of negative case law in PA to support these no gun allowed sign not from a second amendment issue but from a trespassing issue.

In my opinion and Pro-gun legislator we discussed this with in private. There is no way to make business not legally be able to post these no gun allowed signs or even a slimmer chance of passing legislation to deal with this in this session before it expires at the end of 2008.

What we are researching to verify is how other states deal with these signs, preliminary research done in past, indicates that some other states enacted legislation that hold any business with these no gun allowed sign legally responsible for your personal safety in a victim disarmament zone. Which means AG business with sign can be sued and held liable for damages by disarming you if something happens to you in their place of business because of their policy. The state law quoted provides business that do not post these no gun allowed sign legal immunity for any liability committed by LTCF permit holders actions while on their premise.

Most (not all) of these business posting no gun allowed sign where created over a possible liability and insurance issue and not from a pure AG agenda.
No one in business in today competitive market place can really afford to lose any customers, yet they don’t want customers that are more trouble than they are worth or lose them other customer business either by chasing them away because everyone is OC. Some other counties think its no big deal OC, just like it used to be here in the USA, your grand parents could take their firearm to school to go hunting on the way home before the media made US all afraid of "what if" and don't trust your neighbor or anybody else, FEAR GRIPS most people now in this country.

This might be something to pursue in PA in 2009 from a legislative aspect if any of you would want to work with us to commit some time to see it through the legislative process.

**Pa. Patriot** · May 14th, 2008, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by WhiteFeather

...
Well with what happen to PA Patriot OC incident and Citizens trying to eat a peaceful dinner together in fellowship. I did my part as a PAFOA member, by opening up the informal discussion about Open Carrying of firearms in PA. ... {snip}

Was the 5/9 Dickson City incident used to discuss the illegal "registry" database and how it's existence is encouraging police to abuse citizens rights by running their firearms serial numbers through it as if it actually proved anything?

The police still have one of my firearms due to it not being on the illegal, incomplete database of sales records.

**WhiteFeather** · May 16th, 2008, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Was the 5/9 Dickson City incident used to discuss the illegal "registry" database and how it's existence is encouraging police to abuse citizens rights by running their firearms serial numbers through it as if it actually proved anything?

The police still have one of my firearms due to it not being on the illegal, incomplete database of sales records.

ABSOLUTELY Pa Patriot we talked about your incident and the illegal PA State Police database in general.

Note it was not the primary mission for that day, it was lobbying for HB 1845 in senate, once it was tabled and after completing our assigned senator’s contact list. We engaged some Reps for HB 641 “castle doctrine” passage and we discussed your incident, the marine forum member firearm that was also confiscated by Hawley PD. Along with several others similar style incidents of Citizen firearms being run in “clean” non-crime events.

If you look at the attached PDF from PA Coalition Against Domestic Violence you will see a common thread in all of their rhetoric its evasive argument, to distortion of facts to out right lies because in most cases they have no facts to support them. In all of there talking points you will see, This may happen, this might happen, or using what if, all fear based propaganda.

Its shameful and INSULTING how little PCADV thinks of woman in abusive relationship. Like by only waving a "piece of paper" Protection From Abuse court order is really going to stop a abusive person intending on harming them.

We use real world examples of cases of abuse of existing firearm laws like what happened to Pa Patriot’s to directly illustrate the problems to legislators. This is why win a lot of the debates in Harrisburg providing documented FACTS to refute the other sides BS and outright lies. This why we encourage direct involvement by gun owners with educating legislators with events like the April 7,08 Second Amendment Second to None lobbying events can have a tremendous ripple effects in Harrisburg.

Education of elected officials in all offices is the Key in this fight, and its up to gun owners to unlock your freedom and firearm rights by personal contact.

For some you that want to come up to speed on the long history of the illegal PSP database and the effort to fight it in the courts and with PG legislators by the Allegheny County Sportsmen’s League and other activist groups in PA.

Read about ACSL long fought war against the illegal PSP database.

http://acslpa.org/n-register/n-registration.html

Most of you will be amazed at some of the past history on this GUN REGISTRATION in PA and after reading you will be more educated on subject and more effective in fighting It.

I hope you join with us in a legislative approach to help stop it from occurring again.

From my meetings with Pa Patriot they picked on the wrong Patriot, I know Kim Stolfer is already working with Pa Patriot, so the PD don't have a chance in court of law.

**gnbrotz** · June 6th, 2008, 08:59 PM

Update on Snowflakes In Hell.

**Mtbkski** · June 8th, 2008, 03:19 PM

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3982

Here is a great link. All the Senate's e-mails are listed and hyperlinked that you will want to write to. I wrote a letter, copied it, and pasted it in each link. It don't get much easier to get your feelings out to those that matter the most when it comes time to vote.

House Bill 1845 deals with carry in STATE PARKS. CONFISCATION during times of emergencies. And issuance of permits to those that need it in emergencies.

Can't get much easier for you to do something. Took me about 10 minutes to send letters to 14 Senators. Come on everyone. Do your part.

**WhiteFeather** · June 10th, 2008, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3982

Here is a great link. All the Senate's e-mails are listed and hyperlinked that you will want to write to. I wrote a letter, copied it, and pasted it in each link. It don't get much easier to get your feelings out to those that matter the most when it comes time to vote.

House Bill 1845 deals with carry in STATE PARKS. CONFISCATION during times of emergencies. And issuance of permits to those that need it in emergencies.

Can't get much easier for you to do something. Took me about 10 minutes to send letters to 14 Senators. Come on everyone. Do your part.

THANK YOU for doing your part..... If gun owners want these bills to pass, to get back some of their rights, its time to speak up and contact the senators.

**WhiteFeather** · June 10th, 2008, 02:57 PM

EXCELLENT NEWS
6-10-2008

Kim Stolfer just call and wanted me to THANK all of you that took the time to contact the senators on judiciary committee with regards to HB 1845.

It PASSED by a 9-4 VOTE

Voting against Gun Owners were these four senators.

Wayne Fontana – Allegheny
Jay Costa – Allegheny
Michael Stack – Philadelphia
Stewart Greenleaf - Montgomery

As a side note Godshall house amendment for Pa State Police to maintain a registry of lost or stolen firearm was removed, due to heavy lobbying pressure by of all groups, the PSP. The same PSP that has spend over a 130 million dollars keeping an illegal database of gun owners that has caused much harm and cost to gun owners on this forum.

All of the rest of the pro gun amendments passed.

A discovery by PRO- Lawyers that work with us, demonstrated that we have to do a technical rewrite of the actual language of bill with state parks definition of out of state LTCF permits holders has to be completed to make sure that falls into proper definitions of existing firearm laws in UFA.

Thank you to everyone that did your part and made your views known.

Next step is for a FULL senate vote, then to on governor for his signature.