Finding property/right-of-way boundaries?

[LittleRedToyota]

hey yinz...

i have a question maybe someone can help me with.

how do i find out where the property/right-of-way boundaries are for railroad right-of-ways?

i've looked around the internet, but have not been able to find them or to figure out who i would contact to find them.

the reason i ask is this:

the city of pittsburgh (or maybe allgeheny county, i'm not really sure which) has developed a nice bike/jogging trail along the north shore of the allegheny river.

it runs all the way from downtown to a little past the 40th street bridge. after the 40th street bridge, it merges into a dirt road running parallel to railroad tracks owned by norfolk southern.

there are no gates or no tresspassing signs at the merger and the road runs all the way to the 62nd street bridge (also known as the R.D. Fleming bridge).

near the 62nd street bridge, there is a gate on that road, but it is always open (and obviously has been for a long time) and there are no no tresspassing signs.

people routinely drive down that dirt road and pull off to the side to go fishing in the river. people also routinely use that road as an extension of the bike trail for biking and jogging.

(when i say routinely, i mean it...like there are always people running/biking on that road and always people parked along it fishing in the river...and it has been that way for at least 5 years.)

i always wondered if it was really legal to be there or not, but given the traffic on that road, i figured it was either outside of the NS right-of-way, the city cut a deal with them, or they just didn't care.

anyway, the other day i was jogging along that road (it is my favorite running route as it is kinda like running through the woods instead of in the city) and was stopped by an NS railroad police officer.

the police officer was quite friendly, but informed me that i was tresspassing and they were going to start enforcing it and please don't run there anymore.

OK. no problem.

i mentioned, though, that they might want to put up some signs as i think most people don't realize being on that road is tresspassing. he agreed and said they were going to put up some signs and a gate.

a few days later, they dropped some jersey barrier type things across the public trail well before it merges into the railway road. in the middle of the jersey barriers, they plopped a port-a-john with a no tresspassing sign on the door (which made it look like the sign was referring to the port-a-john rather than the roadway, but whatever...)

this kinda surprised me as the place where the put the barrier seems to be clearly on public land (and across a public trail) and is well away from what you would think would be the extent of their right-of-way.

two days after that, the barriers were gone. my guess...and it is just a guess...is that someone complained and that NS has gone outside of their property and sort of usurped some public property so they had to get rid of the barriers.

but, if that were the case, i would have expected them to just move the barriers back to the point where the trail merges with the road rather than get rid of them altogether.

so, now it is back to the old case of no barriers and no no-tresspassing signs.

so, i would really like to figure out if that road (meaning the entire width of it) is actually part of their right-of-way or if the road is actually public property. also, i would like to know about the land between the road and the river. if i run through that "wooded" section instead of on the road, am i doing anything illegal.

i do not want to tresspass, but that is far and away my favorite jogging loop, so if i can legally run there, i want to.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

LRT

[P89]

I'm going to have to do some digging for you LRT to get that kind of info.
Even we have a bitch of a time getting info from the railroads and we're a Engineering firm, it's as bad as getting a straight answer from Penndot.

Don't hold me to this I'm just going by what's in my head.
The unimproved road may not be in the RR ROW but may be an easement dedicated to the RR for maintence use or some sort of agreement. The Pa boat commision/DCNR governs all waterways in PA & 25' (If I recall correctly could be 50') from the top of each bank on either side the river. The easiest thing for you to do is go down to the courthouse to the Recorder of Deeds office and look for that tax map. There is an overall map for an area and sub-maps for specific blocks in that area. That will tell you where the ROW is and how wide the ROW is. On that tax map you will find a tax ID#. That number will direct you to a Deed book & page number which will reveal the owner, address, and description for the property.

It seems strange that one day there is a barrier then it's gone. Seems like someone got trumped.
Since the trail is developed and maintained, my guess would be for public use, I don't see where you'd be doing anything wrong.



Here's a quick link to get you started...just a scematic.
ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf...ide/parail.pdf
There is better info out there, let me keep looking.


Right along on RT.28 there, correct?
What township is that?...nevermind....Shaler township, Millvale borough.
Go down to the Borough building, they should have a map that tells you, or township building.
I think your perfectly legal in what your doing, I'm pretty familar with the area.
There's a marina and everything down there.
When I landed a job at Tippins I moved to Etna, was there for about 2 years.
Small world huh?

[billamj]

I think that you could find out via the appropriate office at your county courthouse. You might have to know exactly which plot plan you are looking for but they should have the information filed on the "official" plot plan.

[chugger95]

You gotta watch out for them railroad police. I got stopped on my dirtbike when I was like 12 (my cousin was with me and he stopped like an idiot, it was right where we turn off into the woods, I planned on not stopping and just turning off). They took down every bit of info they could, they wanted my SS number but I didn't give it to them. Then two weeks later they called wanting the serial number off my bike, which again I didn't give them. It was the same thing where the posted signs were on the trees on the side and looked like the woods were posted. I always wondered if the railroad police actually had any power or if they just worked for the railroad company.

[LittleRedToyota]

thanks for the info guys.

yes, it is that stretch right along 28. i would guess shaler/millvale/etna, but i think some spots over there are actually in the city of pittsburgh, but maybe not.

anyway, i will try some of the resources you guys suggested. thanks again.

[P89]

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf...heny/02445.pdf

Looks like the line is in the middle of the river.
Anything north is Shaler or Reserve townships.
If you go too far west past the 40th st. bridge you'll end up in Pittsburgh.

Attend a borough meeting and ask the question, see what they say.

[Swarner793]

Tax Assessment Office. Use the GIS. It will have the property lines overlaid on an aerial photo. We use them for our surveillances. Many counties have them online. My county does not so I have to visit the Courthouse.

Be safe.

Scott