Winchester 70 stock/barrel fit question

[X-Man]

I took my Win 70 out to the range today, to get an idea if it was close to being sighted in. It's a 1973 featherweight 30-06, with a Leopold 3 x 9 Vari - X II scope. Well, it was shooting very wide to the left, more that 24" off the POA, target was 100 yards.

When I brought it home, I looked at the barrel as it fit into the fore end of the stock. The barrel is tight against the stock on the left side. I removed the action from the stock, and also noticed a contact point on the bottom of the barrel 8" forward from the the receiver where it touches the fore end of the stock.

My question is should there be any contact between the barrel and the stock forward of the receiver? Should I sand down the channel of the stock to relieve any pressure? The stock is the factory checkered style. Any other thoughts on improving its accuracy?

[Bama Man]

Most rifles shoot better with no wood touching in the barrel channel at all, that's the reason of "free floating" a barrel. If the barrel does touch, it should be even throughout the length of the channel, but, wood changes with humidity and temperature, and the grain will actually change and "pull" the barrel one way or another.
The easiest way to free float that I found is to find a good transfer medium, such as bright red or black lipstick, which works great here.
Remove the barreled action, and smear the bottom of the barrel forward of the receiver, and scrape out the area where the barrel has touched the wood. ( excluding the chamber area)
Keep doing this,( it's very time consuming, as you don't want to take out too much wood ) until the barrel no longer leaves any smears.
I use barrel channeling tools to do this and I remove enough wood to run a dollar bill between the barrel and the wood, from the tip of the stock to the front end of the chamber.
I then usually bed the receiver and chamber area using Brownell's bedding epoxy gel.
The problem you described is very usual for factory stocks. Most older factory rifles followed the guidline to make the metal look like the wood "grew" around it. This is great for the receiver and hardware parts, but is no longer accepted as good advice for the barrel area and for consistant accuracy.

[X-Man]

Bama Man; I bought the rifle more than ten years ago from a friend, who had the rifle sighted in with this scope as mounted. Rifle has been stored and not been used until today. Your comment about the stock changing by warping or swelling a bit is probably the problem. The stock contacts the barrel only at the end of the fore stock, for about 2", the rest of the channel is clear. I'll slowly sand down that end, by hand, and check my progress using your transfer id suggestion.

Otherwise, the receiver fits tightly into the stock, and I won't touch that end of the stock. Just want to get typical average size groups, for now. Thanks.

[mudlust]

Aside from shooting 2 feet to the left, what size group are you getting? You said it's been stored for 10 years with no use. Have you seen this rifle previously perform well on paper or are you only taking your friends word on it?

Free floating the barrel with a dial rod and sand paper may tighten up your groups a bit, but I doubt that stock distortion is to blame. I would first examine the scope and rings for damage and/or loose mounting before I started honing on the wood.

If it were me, I would take the rifle to the range and lay it on sand bags. Remove the bolt and take aim on the bullseye. Position the rifle so that it remains on target unaided. An adjustable shooting rest makes quick work of this but it can be done without one. Now stand behind the rifle and look down the bore. Note where the bore points in relation to where the scope points. This may not be the most scientific method, but you should notice a two foot difference in windage.

When I have doubts about the integrity of a rifle, I get a big piece of cardboard and put a 1" orange target dot in the center. Turn the scope up to max power. Taking as careful aim as I can I fire three shots. Take your time. Dont try to just hit the dot. Try to hit the center of the dot. At this point I dont really care if the shots are on target, all I care about is group size.

[Tomcat088]

The barrel should not be contacting the stock, much less only on the left side. Is the rifle bedded? It makes me think that the action isn't in th stock properly, or someone beddd it improperly. When a rifle isn't bedded, the relief for the recoil lug is usually pretty generous and the action can shift a fair bit. Have you tried loosening your action screws some and shifting the action a little forward or backward and trying to turn it some? You said that you removed it and looked at it, which makes me think that you put it back in and it was still the same way; that's what makes me wonder if it was improperly bedded.

When something touches the barrel, it effects the barrel harmonics. Typically something effecting the barrel harmonics is a bad thing, although occasionally it does have good results. Most barrels shoot best when they have no contact point, but there are the occasional barrel that will shoot better when they are "pressure bedded". This induces stress in the barrel, which can change (the stress) when the barrel heats up, and it's why I don't particularly like pressure bedding a barrel. In LR shooting, you are told to not touch your barrel on anything, do not rest your barrel on a barricade, tree, rest, branch, etc. Typically whatever side the thing is touching the barrel, is the side that it will throw the shot to, which will be off of target and from your zero.

I'm with mudlust, do you know that this rifle has shot well before, or was it zero'ed before it got put away? I kind of wonder if the scope was mounted improperly or if it shifted while was away in storage. I do still think it's a problem and wrong for the stock to be touching the barrel, so try to move the action. If it's improperly bedded, that's the problem which can be fixed. If it's not bedded, then that means the action is in wrong or it's warped a little bit. The easiest and consistent way to open up the inlet on the barrel channel is to take something round like a small piece of pvc, dowel, metal rod, etc, and wrap it in some sandpaper. You want it below the top parts of the stock, or else you'll take the finish off and make it look bad. You just run that rod up and down the barrel channel and it will open it up in a consistent manner on both sides. This way you don't get it all wonky on one side. Opening up both sides and shifting the action in the stock a bit will usually give you the clearance that you need without having to remove too much wood. As Bamaman said, check the stock often and you can run a dollar bill between the barrel and stock to see if it's now free floating. Make sure that your back action screw is at least firm, because if it's loose the barrel could be sagging some and making it touch the stock. Hope that helps and let us know what you find out.

[X-Man]

I worked on the stock today, following the suggestions given. I used a dowel, the same dia as the barrel and wrapped in sandpaper, to remove a bit of the channel of the fore stock. I should note that the tip of this stock is made of a plastic, and this is where the bind was. Working slowly, I sanded the area down to where now a piece of bond paper (.0045") will slide between the stock and barrel when assembled. The fit now looks proper. The receiver fits tightly in the stock and there is no side to side or other free movement before tightening the stock screws.

It sounds like a good idea the check the bore alignment with the scope, next trip to the range. Although I can not spot any defect in the scope or mount, one never knows. The rings and base seem tight, and I think they were also made by Leopold.

Another thought is to try other types of ammo and compare groups. I won't get back out to the range until next week. PS, I was using a 168 gr bthp cartridge first time out. Thanks for the comments, I'll give another report later.

[d90king]

Bama Man; I bought the rifle more than ten years ago from a friend, who had the rifle sighted in with this scope as mounted. Rifle has been stored and not been used until today. Your comment about the stock changing by warping or swelling a bit is probably the problem. The stock contacts the barrel only at the end of the fore stock, for about 2", the rest of the channel is clear. I'll slowly sand down that end, by hand, and check my progress using your transfer id suggestion.

Otherwise, the receiver fits tightly into the stock, and I won't touch that end of the stock. Just want to get typical average size groups, for now. Thanks.

I don't mean to over simplify here, but have you made your adjustments to your glass? I doubt very seriously that your glass would hold a zero for 10 years. Two feet, at a 100, makes me think this is more of the problem than a contact point. What type of groups are you getting forgetting the two feet left part?

You have gotten some excellent input already, but sometimes its easy to miss the simplest correction...

[X-Man]

d90king; It's OK, as sometimes we do miss the simple things. I did move the scope adjustments to make a correction, but soon ran out of adjustment. So I reset the scope to its starting position, realizing that there is probably another source of the problem.

But your comment has just helped me locate a set adjustment screws I didn't realize was there.

The rear of the scope mount has two adj screws, one on each side, facing each other. Loosening one and then tightening the other seems to shift the rear of the scope right or left, as a coarse adj. This could be out of adj. And a likely culprit of the problem.

Time to reset the scope to the "zero" point of the crosshairs, and then, using these two adj screws align the scope with the bore. Then fine tune the scope depending on the POI.

One of those "ah so" moments. Never had this type of scope base before. Thanks.

[crghss]

I wanted to try and free float my Win 70 .264 mag. But I can't seem to get the barrel off. Did you remove just the three screws on the bottom? Front and back trigger and the one for the magazine?

I think I need to just apply more pressure but want to make sure first.

[X-Man]

crhgss, Yes, I only needed to remove the three screws as you noted. The action, though a bit snug, did come right out.

I've was able the relieve the stock - barrel pressure problem, and the barrel is now free floating. Have aligned the bore and scope using a laser sight tool. Scope did not hardly need any adjustment. Now it's ready to take it back out to the range.