9mm vs ...357 Magnum?!?

[CommonHighrise]

Yes, another cartridge debate. I know, I know. But I want to limit this to the two ends of the spectrum for personal defense. Normally, there would be no argument for me, as Im a die hard wheelgun guy, and have no problem placing my faith in the horsepower of the 125gr JHP .357 to do what needs done. However, had a discussion today with a coworker who brought up some thoughtful points;

-Terminal Ballistics; While the 357 is the Street King, with deep penetration and great expansion, the capabilities of rounds at 9mm speeds has greatly improved over the past few years through bullet design. While he conceided that the 9mm wasnt better than the 357, with the right rounds it wasnt at all insufficient.

-Capacity; Statistically, gunfights with civilians on the street wont empty a revolver, however there isnt much of a cushion if youre the exception to that rule. Better to have the option vs forced to reload.

-Speed; Im good with my 357, even with the punch of my carry ammo, but Ill never be as fast as the rate of accurate fire from a fullsize 9mm auto.

-Legality; When you go to court for your defensive shooting, the prosecutor will certainly bring up your choice in carry ammo. While I beleive 357 can be defended as the longtime choice of LEOs, especially Highway Patrols, its a lot easier to just match your carry ammo with that of every local LEO. Also, with 9mm, you can circumvent the prosecution taking the 'Dirty Harry' approach to ridiculing you.

-Price; 9mm is cheaper across the board to .38spl, and way cheaper than fullmagnum loadings. This equals more ammo to burn at the range, more trigger time, and, arguably, better handling skills.

-Noise; 357s are loud. So are 9mms, however Im fairly certain I would sustain permanentear damage from firing my revolver in a hallway or narrow alley, or more immeadiatly, be able to regain usuable hearing ability sooner after shots fired.

So what are the thoughts of you all towards this? I know comprimise can be found between these two cartridges on both the semiauto and revolver side, but I found comparing the 'extremes' interesting. Not really looking to decide which one is all around superior, just get a better concept of the pros and cons of each.

[The Drew]

Also remember that an auto reloads much faster than the typical non moonclip revolver.

I like to have lots of capacity, personal preference, The new XDm 9mm is 19+1 and the highend .357 revolver is only 8 rounds. (that I know of).

[LittleRedToyota]

my thoughts on this...as with any handgun caliber war when talking about defense against human predators...boil down to:

1. with modern ammo, all handgun calibers from 9mm on up are about equally effective against humans.

2. the more you practice, the more likely you are to deliver effective hits in a self-defense situation

3. if you don't reload, then 9mm is the way to go because the ammo is cheaper so you can afford to practice more. if you do reload, then this doesn't really matter.

4. 9mm has less recoil and, therefore, may be a better choice because it can allow you to get follow-up shots on target more accurately and quicker. however, many people are quite quick and accurate at placing follow-up shots with other calibers. so, for those people this doesn't really matter.

(ETA: one other thought i had regarding .357mag in particular. i personally don't like the idea of practicing with ammo that is not very much like my self-defense ammo. if i ever need to shoot in a self-defense situation, i want it to be as close as possible to my practice. while there are many things about the situation i will not be able to control in that regard, one thing i can control is having the gun behave the same way in both settings. thus, imho, practicing with .38spl but then carrying .357mag isn't a great idea...if you are used to the way the gun handles with .38spl, you are going to expect it to handle like that if the SHTF, but it is actually going to handle much differently if loaded with .357mag. but, again, that's just me...obviously many people do that and it works fine for them.)

[thelemite]

357 Sig or 38 super

[DCChris]

I'll stick with the 357. It does everything it's supposed to do...WELL. Besides, if you really need the additional 13 rounds, you probably shouldn't have gone to that place to begin with.

[CommonHighrise]

I'll stick with the 357. It does everything it's supposed to do...WELL. Besides, if you really need the additional 13 rounds, you probably shouldn't have gone to that place to begin with.

If I need a gun at all, I really shouldnt have been in that place to begin with.

On a side note, while I shoot a great deal of .38spl, I do mix in the 357s, and every training session ends with two cylinders of carry ammo, rapid fire. I figure that way, the freshest muscle memory I have of the gun is with carry ammo.

[Glockman]

I have carried both alot. The Revolver is lumpy and 39 oz. loaded. My Glock 19 is 29 oz. loaded with 15 rounds and is flatter and due to a lower bore to hand position is more controllable. With the better +p or +p+ ammo the 9mm is only giving up 11% on muzzle energy. Like most police dept I have chosen the 9mm over the heavy 357.

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree with "LittleRedToyota." Since I reload I'm able to make replica rounds to practice with that closely mimic my carry ammo. I also feel it's important to shoot what you carry so that your reactions are instinctive in a pressure situation. Positive muscle memory is important...

[mrnyman]

Sometimes when i watch those true crime shows on TV i get very sad and depressed, i feel very bad for the all those innocent people that were brutally murdered and sometimes raped then murederd by thier murderers, i sometimes wonder if thier final thoughts sometimes before they are killed , is if only i had a gun on me , ! if only i kept a loaded gun in my Car?
I wish i kept a Gun in the House! I dont think that they would give any thought to wether or not it were a "nine" or a ."357" Its irrelevant.

Just a thought,

Nyman

[jahwarrior72]

Yes, another cartridge debate. I know, I know. But I want to limit this to the two ends of the spectrum for personal defense. Normally, there would be no argument for me, as Im a die hard wheelgun guy, and have no problem placing my faith in the horsepower of the 125gr JHP .357 to do what needs done. However, had a discussion today with a coworker who brought up some thoughtful points;

-Terminal Ballistics; While the 357 is the Street King, with deep penetration and great expansion, the capabilities of rounds at 9mm speeds has greatly improved over the past few years through bullet design. While he conceided that the 9mm wasnt better than the 357, with the right rounds it wasnt at all insufficient.

-Capacity; Statistically, gunfights with civilians on the street wont empty a revolver, however there isnt much of a cushion if youre the exception to that rule. Better to have the option vs forced to reload.

-Speed; Im good with my 357, even with the punch of my carry ammo, but Ill never be as fast as the rate of accurate fire from a fullsize 9mm auto.

-Legality; When you go to court for your defensive shooting, the prosecutor will certainly bring up your choice in carry ammo. While I beleive 357 can be defended as the longtime choice of LEOs, especially Highway Patrols, its a lot easier to just match your carry ammo with that of every local LEO. Also, with 9mm, you can circumvent the prosecution taking the 'Dirty Harry' approach to ridiculing you.

-Price; 9mm is cheaper across the board to .38spl, and way cheaper than fullmagnum loadings. This equals more ammo to burn at the range, more trigger time, and, arguably, better handling skills.

-Noise; 357s are loud. So are 9mms, however Im fairly certain I would sustain permanentear damage from firing my revolver in a hallway or narrow alley, or more immeadiatly, be able to regain usuable hearing ability sooner after shots fired.

So what are the thoughts of you all towards this? I know comprimise can be found between these two cartridges on both the semiauto and revolver side, but I found comparing the 'extremes' interesting. Not really looking to decide which one is all around superior, just get a better concept of the pros and cons of each.

i agree with every single point you made except for what i highlighted. when it comes to proving your case, any lawyer trying to hang you for a good shoot will attack your choice in ammo. in reality, it doesn't matter whether you used .40S&W Black Talons, .45ACP Golden Sabres, or 9mm Hydrashoks. anyone one of these can be portrayed as "lethal, armor piercing , explosive rounds, meant to go through schools and bibles to kill the innocent!" you get the idea.

i took a minute to think about it, and i think the reverse of what you said might be true. semiautos are demonized worse than traditional wheelguns, i think. it's one of the reasons, i believe, that when the DC ban was lifted, citizens were still only allowed to own revolvers. they're not seen as the vicious, baby killing machines that semiautos are. just a thought.

i will say this: i sure wish a 9mm performed like a .357Mag.