Gun in car?

**Hawk** · February 14th, 2008, 01:59 PM

I started this thread based partly on another topic in another tread, I didn't want to hijack that thread.

Is it unreasonable to expect the same fundamental protections for the possessions in your vehicle as you do for your possessions in your home?
Why is it if someone breaks into your car and steals something its not the same a breaking into your home to steal something? If your possessions are under lock and key what difference does it make if its your car or your home? Breaking a car window to gain entrance is no different than breaking a window in your home to gain entrance. I know your going to say the car is less attended and less secure than your home, I say Bull Pucky! If in both scenarios no one is around, it should make no difference. How many people out there conceal carry and are prohibited from weapons on company property? What are you supposed to do with your sidearm while at work? And with regards to an additional "safe type thing" in your car to secure the gun, Are you doing that to to protect yourself from some sort of prosecution if your car gets "broken into" and your gun is stolen. Hey, unless the safe is really secured to the vehicle, the guns going to be stolen anyway, safe or not, or if they steal the whole car, there goes your gun too. It's the same situation in your home, do we lock up every gun in a safe when we are not home? How many people still display their guns in a rack or in a glass front case at home? How many people have emergency firearms hidden but easily accessed in their homes even when they are not at home? IMHO, as long as the car is locked and the gun is out of sight it should be the same as in your locked home, out of sight.

Hawk,

**knight0334** · February 14th, 2008, 03:02 PM

I'm not sure what PA's or the local's thinking is on that..

If we'd just adopt FL's method we would be protected and our possessions less questioned as to the way we stored them. ....which is theft of any item from under a roof is burglary. Car roof, carport roof, house roof, tent roof, umbrella - it doesn't matter, if its taken from under a roof it is burglary, a forcible felony(think bang).

PA's, or local parts of PA, way of thinking is - blame the owner for making it available rather than blaming the thief for taking it. We have no duty to lockup our possessions, but we do have an obligation not to steal.

**scjbob** · February 14th, 2008, 04:52 PM

"What are you supposed to do with your sidearm while at work? And with regards to an additional "safe type thing" in your car to secure the gun, Are you doing that to to protect yourself from some sort of prosecution if your car gets "broken into" and your gun is stolen?"

Just a quick comment. Keep in mind that most employers that set a policy of no weapons also include the parking lot, since it is usually on company property as well. This particular issue has been challenged in other states but the company will probably win out no matter what you do since they have the right to do so. The question of the day is what constitutes illegal search if your employer insists on looking through your car if he suspects a weapon. Never happen you say? Leaving it in your car is the same as carrying it into the building as far as they are concerned.

**Zef_66** · February 14th, 2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by scjbob

Just a quick comment. Keep in mind that most employers that set a policy of no weapons also include the parking lot, since it is usually on company property as well. This particular issue has been challenged in other states but the company will probably win out no matter what you do since they have the right to do so. The question of the day is what constitutes illegal search if your employer insists on looking through your car if he suspects a weapon. Never happen you say? Leaving it in your car is the same as carrying it into the building as far as they are concerned.

Just FWIW, my employer bans all firearms in the company buildings. While I don't follow this, as I value my life more than my job, I do leave one of my sidearms in the car, and only carry my BUG. If they did have a policy against firearms in the parking lot, as they would be legally allowed to do, and asked to search my car, I would refuse. They are legally allowded to regulate what is on their property. But they are not allowded to search me or my vehicle to find this "contraband". If I refuse I might get fired. If they search my car, I might get fired. But they cannot legally search my vehicle without my permission.

**Hawk** · February 14th, 2008, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by scjbob

"What are you supposed to do with your sidearm while at work? And with regards to an additional "safe type thing" in your car to secure the gun, Are you doing that to to protect yourself from some sort of prosecution if your car gets "broken into" and your gun is stolen?"

Just a quick comment. Keep in mind that most employers that set a policy of no weapons also include the parking lot, since it is usually on company property as well. This particular issue has been challenged in other states but the company will probably win out no matter what you do since they have the right to do so. The question of the day is what constitutes illegal search if your employer insists on looking through your car if he suspects a weapon. Never happen you say? Leaving it in your car is the same as carrying it into the building as far as they are concerned.

I somewhat agree. I'm not sure the word "most" is valid. I know of many businesses that do not have company parking lots. Hey, try working downtown Pittsburgh and get company parking on a lot they own

. In addition, It's been my experience that HR people typically put these policies together without much consultation from legal. So, it can be beat, depending on the wording they use in the policy.

Hawk,

**marinakorp** · February 14th, 2008, 05:19 PM

In my case, I do not park on company property, I walk across the street and use a non company provided parking.

So... can I leave my weapon in the car, someone steals it... what trouble would I be in with the state of PA... forget my employer... not his/her property

**Philadelphia** · February 15th, 2008, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hawk

I started this thread based partly on another topic in another tread, I didn't want to hijack that thread.

Is it unreasonable to expect the same fundamental protections for the possessions in your vehicle as you do for your possessions in your home?

No. I think it's unacceptable that there are so many petty thieves roaming the streets that the public and the gov't have come to expect that a car is not a secure place to store anything anymore. The fact that I even describe it as "petty" theft shows how deep the brain washing can get.

The stigma of "irresponsibility" for storing a gun in a car which is then stolen is really the gov't's acknowlegement that it can't do thing one to stop theives from stealing from a car, or stealing the whole car. If the penalty for breaking into a car were 20 years in state prison, you'd see fewer people breaking in to cars.[/QUOTE]

**MrUgly** · February 15th, 2008, 09:13 AM

I park in a public parking lot and take a train into the city. I don't keep anything in it that I couldn't live without. Risk is too great. That said, if I am sitting in my car and some knob decided he wants my first aid bag, I would react the safe as if he took my B.O.B. from inside my hall closet.

In my opinion, if you leave a gun in your vehicle, you are making a mistake. Exemptions are for those that have in-vehicle gun safes. Scenario: You leave one of your cheapie guns in the car, locked in a lockbox, and someone steals your car. 3 weeks later the po-po call you and tell you your gun was used in crime. Are you legally responsible? No. Civilly? Probably not. Morally? My answer would be yes. I would feel morally responsible if someone used one of my weapons to kill an innocent *AND I KNEW I DIDN'T DO EVERYTHING* to safeguard that firearm.

<shrug> To each their own, I suppose.

**BearTitan** · February 15th, 2008, 09:24 AM

Hawk, I agree completely with your OP. In my mind, a firearm in my truck is the same as any other posession in a home, garage, or building. Locked or not, opening the car door should be considered burgulary, as you said.

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

If the penalty for breaking into a car were 20 years in state prison, you'd see fewer people breaking in to cars.

[/QUOTE]

Damn right.

**TonyF** · February 15th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hawk

In addition, It's been my experience that HR people typically put these policies together without much consultation from legal.

Hawk,

Au contraire. HR does consult with legal. In fact it's probably more so security and legal dictate the HR policy.

What makes it so ridiculous is that they're trying to stack the legal odds in their favor with respect to lawsuits from victim's families in you you go bonkers and shoot up a bunch of co-workers but guess what, they're getting sued anyway. That's what is so ironic.