HB 2176 Constitutional Carry - The Battle FOR passage into the UFA in 2012

[das]

Response From Rep. Fitzpatrick.

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September 05, 2012


Dear Dominic,



Thank you for contacting me about your Second Amendment rights. I appreciate learning your views on this issue and welcome the opportunity to respond.

As you know, the Second Amendment provides law abiding citizens with the individual constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Unfortunately, all too often, responsible gun owners have been punished for the wrongdoing of criminals and have seen their constitutionally expressed Second Amendment rights infringed. Legislation must stop targeting hunters, responsible gun owners, and gun manufacturers, and instead focus on the real problem - criminals’ illegal use of firearms. I will continue to oppose any and all efforts to deny responsible citizens their constitutionally protected right to bear arms.

You may be interested to know that I co-sponsored and voted in favor of H.R. 822, the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011. H.R. 822 allows a person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit (CCP) or license to carry a concealed firearm in any other state that also allows CCPs or does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms.

I am also a co-sponsor of H.R. 420, the Veterans' Heritage Firearms Act. This bill would provide amnesty for veterans and family members to register war relic firearms without fear of prosecution.

Finally, I am also supported H.R. 4089, the Sportsmen's Heritage Act. The legislation combined a number of other bills already introduced in the House of Representatives to expand recreational hunting, shooting and fishing opportunities while also protecting sportsmen from unnecessary regulations. Recreational fishing and hunting are important and traditional activities for millions of Americans. Pennsylvania has a proud history of fishing and hunting, and it is important that these recreational activities are protected from unnecessary regulation.

Again, thank you for contacting me. If you have further questions, or need assistance in another matter, please call my office at 202-225-4276.


Sincerely,

Mike Fitzpatrick

Mike Fitzpatrick
Member of Congress


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[ImminentDanger]

I find a curious disconnect between this:

I will continue to oppose any and all efforts to deny responsible citizens their constitutionally protected right to bear arms.

And this:

I am also a co-sponsor of H.R. 420, the Veterans' Heritage Firearms Act. This bill would provide amnesty for veterans and family members to register war relic firearms without fear of prosecution.

And I saw no statement of support for this state-level Constitutional Carry bill - where the government has no tracking or overreaching oversight...

Even though he is a federal-level representative, and has no vote on the bill in question, if he supports this in Pennsylvania it would have been good for him to explicitly say so...

...

[WhiteFeather]

UPDATE we picked up another co sponsor

current sponsorship is 33 as of 9-24-12

SACCONE, COX, METCALFE, ROCK, MALONEY, BRENNAN, CREIGHTON, CUTLER, DALEY, EVERETT, GABLER, GEIST, HESS, KNOWLES, MAHER, METZGAR, NEUMAN, SAINATO, STERN, ROAE, GEORGE, MARSHALL, TALLMAN, KAUFFMAN, DENLINGER, GIBBONS, STEVENSON, CHRISTIANA, FLECK, BLOOM, DUNBAR, READSHAW and REESE

Many Thanks to ALL that have taken the time and extra effort to contact the Reps to ask them to become a co sponsor

[buck41]

Hi, I just wanted to let people know i got a email back from Matthew E. Baker saying that he will support HB 2176.

[northernlights]

Just finally got the explanation from Rosemary Brown's office... she will not be co-sponsoring the bill at this time because she fears it may come out of committee totally different than what it's going in as. Does that sound legit to you all? You can (and, if you feel this is BS, should) call her office at (570) 420-8301 to inquire further or to call BS on this if you like.

If anyone does call, post here and let us know how it goes.

[WhiteFeather]

Hi, I just wanted to let people know i got a email back from Matthew E. Baker saying that he will support HB 2176.

never signed on as a co sponsor, support has many differant levels of what this Actually means

Just finally got the explanation from Rosemary Brown's office... she will not be co-sponsoring the bill at this time because she fears it may come out of committee totally different than what it's going in as. Does that sound legit to you all? You can (and, if you feel this is BS, should) call her office at (570) 420-8301 to inquire further or to call BS on this if you like.

If anyone does call, post here and let us know how it goes.

Some of this is BS excuse and some of it true and of genuine concern to a Rep

One of the functions of the judiciary committee and the whole committee process is for public hearing and to vent and or amend proposed legislation for a variety of legitimate reasons.

Sometime with amendments the language gets so radically changed that even the original bills sponsor doesn’t support and has to vote against their own bill.

Mostly the committees chairperson control position are abused from the prime directive to create constitutional language and changes for the public good and used as choke points to kill proposed legislation or let it die there without action session after session.

It happens and sometimes when a bill goes sideways like this, often people back in their district get mad at the co sponsors of this “new” version.

With anywhere from 3,000, to 6,000 pieces of different proposed legislation introduced in any given two year session in both houses it tough to impossible to keep track of all of this legislation. (IF you don’t keep track of the less than 200 gun bills every session, how about reading and knowing the 6K amount of legislation)

Enter firearm Activist (your name goes here) to educate the Reps on particular bills to gather a support for a proposal bill to be able to move forward.

Why it’s a BS excuse is any sponsor can have their name removed almost instantly at ANY TIME if the bill changes in form. Happens often, some cases its pure politics or a turf war with the sponsor and just piety non sense children like behavior over something else, they remove their name to take their ball & bat to g0 home.

Rep Rosemary Brown as any Rep that is a co sponsor to legislation is advised on any change or pending movement on that particular bill.

Hence the reason you will often see names on legislation that are 100% against the proposed text, they are just sponsoring to keep track of any progress so they got extra advance time to gather opposition forces to defeat, stall or kill the bill. So any sponsor knows the bill text has changed and is advised.

Often the prime sponsor will send out a sponsorship memo for Reps to sign on without any actual text being available, to see what they are signing on to more than just a concept as outlined in memo.

Sometime the Prime sponsor will do this in a deceptive manor to gather more sponsors, and the co sposnors are shocked to find out what is actually in the text when it finally submitted. (or when edcuated Activsit gun owners bring it to their attention)

Example: Rep Ronald Waters Oct 2, 2012 Castle Doctrine Co-sponsorship request read it here for a laugh
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...11/0/10415.pdf

Rep Waters is ALWAYS sponsoring anti-gun or anti-freedom and more bigger government with ever expanding expensive legislation proposals.

Thought this comment in his memo was funny considering its from a gun control supporter, that also doesn't support Freedom

As state representatives, it is our duty to provide the residents of this Commonwealth with the security and protection they desire

For Rep Rosemary Brown or any Rep not to sponsor after the text is submitted to LRB and available to read, to study up on and get legal consul on, its tough to justify to a BS reply like given, now that you know the facts about co-sponsorship adn the related info here.




how to turn this lack of support commitment and put this back on the Reps?


Your Rep never has a problem asking for your vote on election day or support with putting signs in your yard, asking for cash etc. Support is a two way street and co sponsorship cost nothing, still it sends a message they support what is important to you.

So in a FTF meeting with your Rep they start running some squishy touchy feeling BS about sponsorship to a particular bill without specific articulated concerns, remind them about your support, can be done with the same vigor or lack thereof come election day time.


try this one or a better version of what support means

Ask your Rep IF you (the Rep) wouldn’t have a problem IF you didn’t put a sign in your yard for them or if you didn’t bother to go vote for them on election day, or encourage your friends to stay home so they didn’t vote for them either but you Really still support them as long as you didn’t have to do anything active to show it when it counted for something.

Watch the look on their face and their reaction to that zinger comment.

Now IF a Rep has specific concerns with the text, (IF you don’t know how to answer them) tell them you will get back to them very soon and DO. Take notes and contact US, we help you out with talking points or constructive advise on how to answer their questions.

you can also suggest

They also can go directly to prime sponsor to have their concerns addressed, you can always suggest this and make sure they know you will contact the prime sponsor, so they can’t run more BS to get rid of you.

The goal is always to raise your knowledge level, when you do this and can make the case to the Rep, you go up in the respect level of elected reps eyes, higher rating the more you are taken seriously.

Works this way in your life, you give more respect to someone that knows what they are talking about, versus the general dumb public lack of knowledge.


This is our goal to educate individual gun owners teach them how to be activist, teach what is effective and what isn’t to protect all of our rights, that is IF you really want changes like Constitutional Carry for PA to become the law. We need many individual activist all across PA being active and engaging and educating the elected officials at all levels, this is the key your un locking your freedoms. Not paying money to a group and while you are to busy doing something else and just hope they are doing the right thing for you, is a recipe for a big loss of freedom. Maybe this is the reason why PA is not really gun friendly state, as we need more individually involved and working with each other on proposals they can agree on, for the good of all.

WE will be actively pushing Constitutional Carry in the 2013-2014, with or without your help. Trouble is the few of US can’t do the work to get big changes over ALL the opposition forces gather against Constitutional Carry ever moving through the rest of the legislative process, and still keeping in intact, without watered down feel good version. So IF you want this as the law in PA, don’t expect this to just happen unless you do your part, get your friends and relatives involved as said support is a two way street, and support or opposition has many different levels of what this mean to everyone.

Go read the OP and the related thread to see what perception and reality is from other people points of views (even gun owners) and you have an idea of what Constitutional Carry is going to be a total all out war with many battles and skirmish to get this on the governor desk for signature.

Thanks for your support in the 2011-2012 session and looking forward to 2013-2014 session that with your active support to the cause we can get this passed into law

Please try to make one of legislative interactive lobbying event so you can get an upgrade in the respect ranking with you getting an education in the political process and how you can become effective activsit.

[ImminentDanger]

Apathy During Opportunity
Equals Defeat


The Gun Community is it's own worst enemy.


Did you work toward Constitutional Carry last year???
How long will it be until we have another opportunity???

%%%

[Shadowline]

I sent an email (personalized) to every state representative last year about this. I sent multiple emails to several that seemed to be on the fence, and had back and forth conversations with about 3 or 4 of them. I can say I both did what I could, and I didn't do enough. The important thing right now is to get gun-owners and pro 2A individuals to step it up and fight off this onslaught coming our way over the next few months.

[WhiteFeather]

update Feb 6th 2013

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...cosponId=11553

MEMORANDUM
Posted: February 6, 2013 10:52 AM

From: Representative Rick Saccone

To: All House members

Subject: Constitutional Carry of a Firearm - Former HB 2176

In the past two years, we have seen great victories for Pennsylvanians as we have worked to ensure their rights to bear arms and their right to defend themselves. However, this mission is far from over and there is still work to be done. In the near future, I plan to reintroduce legislation that will create a two-tiered system for the carrying of firearms for lawful purposes in Pennsylvania.

This legislation will provide a new system for carrying firearms for Pennsylvanians. The first level acknowledges that Pennsylvanians have a fundamental constitutional right to keep and bear arms (Article 1, Section 21 of the Pennsylvania Constitution) and that no License to Carry a Firearm (LTCF) is required for law abiding citizens to carry a firearm throughout Pennsylvania. The second level gives citizens the ability to obtain an optional LTCF permit that is valid throughout Pennsylvania and would provide for carrying firearms in other states (currently, (27) states either recognize Pennsylvania LTCF’s or there is a reciprocity agreement in effect). If a citizen passes a criminal background to purchase a new firearm it is patently unjust and constitutionally questionable to add layers of bureaucratic regulations on those who are least likely to commit a crime. Then when one examines the enforcement of the laws, against criminals, for ‘carrying firearms without a license’ the reasoning behind mandating a license ‘only’ for law abiding citizens quickly falls apart.

This legislation defends the rights of the citizens in our Commonwealth and I urge you all to co-sponsor this legislation. Those Pennsylvanians that follow the law each day should not be punished or hindered if they choose to carry a firearm.

Prior co-sponsors: COX, METCALFE, ROCK, MALONEY, BRENNAN, CREIGHTON, CUTLER, DALEY, EVERETT, GABLER, GEIST, GROVE, HESS, KNOWLES, MAHER, METZGAR, NEUMAN, SAINATO, STERN, ROAE, GEORGE AND MARSHALL.

going to start a new thread when this bill get introduced

till then here is a list of past sponsors email address to paste in BCC and ask them to co sponsor again

Referance Rep Saccone's Feb 6th 2013 sponsorship memo in your email


IF you are for the concept of Constitutional Carry email this list here to ask

first list is past co sponsors


sgrove@pahousegop.com; sbloom@pahousegop.com; jchristi@pahousegop.com; jcox@pahousegop.com; pdaley@pahouse.net; gdenling@pahousegop.com; mfleck@pahousegop.com; jgibbons@pahouse.net; jmaher@pahousegop.com; Jmarshal@pahousegop.com; cmetzgar@pahousegop.com; bneuman@pahouse.net; broae@pahousegop.com; csainato@pahouse.net; jstern@pahousegop.com; rstevens@pahousegop.com; wtallman@pahousegop.com;


In this batch are Reps all over from weak, to so so to very strong supporters including some new elected reps as well

ask ALL of them to add their name as a co sponsor

raument@pahousegop.com; mbaker@pahousegop.com; bbarbin@pahouse.net; sbarrar@pahousegop.com; kbenning@pahousegop.com; rbizzarro@pahouse.net; kboback@pahousegop.com; mbrooks@pahousegop.com; rbrown@pahousegop.com; fburns@pahouse.net; mcarroll@pahouse.net; mcauser@pahousegop.com; pclymer@pahousegop.com; sconklin@pahouse.net; bcorbin@pahousegop.com; dcosta@pahouse.net; gday@pahousegop.com; ddeasy@pahouse.net; sdelozie@pahousegop.com; tdeluca@pahouse.net; fdermody@pahouse.net; gdigirol@pahousegop.com; bellis@pahousegop.com; jemrick@pahousegop.com; henglish@pahousegop.com; eevankov@pahousegop.com; ffabrizi@pahouse.net; Ffarry@pahousegop.com; mfee@pahousegop.com; mgergely@pahouse.net; mgillen@pahousegop.com; kgillesp@pahousegop.com; mgingric@pahousegop.com; rgodshal@pahousegop.com; ngoodman@pahouse.net; kgreiner@pahousegop.com; ggrell@pahousegop.com; mhahn@pahousegop.com; mhanna@pahouse.net; tharhai@pahouse.net; jharhart@pahousegop.com; pharkins@pahouse.net; aharris@pahousegop.com; dheffley@pahousegop.com; shelm@pahousegop.com; dhickern@pahousegop.com; rljames@pahousegop.com; wkampf@pahousegop.com; fkeller@pahousegop.com; mkeller@pahousegop.com; tkillion@pahousegop.com; bkortz@pahouse.net; nkotik@pahouse.net; tkrieger@pahousegop.com; dkula@pahouse.net; jlawrenc@pahousegop.com; mlongiet@pahouse.net; glucas@pahousegop.com; tmahoney@pahouse.net; smajor@pahousegop.com; jmarkose@pahouse.net; rmarsico@pahousegop.com; kmasser@pahousegop.com; rmatzie@pahouse.net; jmcginnis@pahousegop.com; NickMicc@pahousegop.com; nmicozzi@pahousegop.com; dmillard@pahousegop.com; rmiller@pahousegop.com; rmirabito@pahouse.net; dmoul@pahousegop.com; gmullery@pahouse.net; mmustio@pahousegop.com; doberlan@pahousegop.com; jpayne@pahousegop.com; mpeifer@pahousegop.com; jpetrarc@pahouse.net; spetri@pahousegop.com; tpickett@pahousegop.com; jpyle@pahousegop.com; klrapp@pahousegop.com; dreed@pahousegop.com; mregan@pahousegop.com; tsankey@pahousegop.com; ssaylor@pahousegop.com; mscavell@pahousegop.com; jsimmons@pahousegop.com; shsmith@pahousegop.com; psnyder@pahouse.net; csonney@pahousegop.com; rswanger@pahousegop.com; mtobash@pahousegop.com; mtoepel@pahousegop.com; ttoohil@pahousegop.com; dtruitt@pahousegop.com; mturzai@pahousegop.com; mvereb@pahousegop.com; kwatson@pahousegop.com; jwhite@pahouse.net;

If there are any format errors in batch email
request you send a PM - listing emails error, so that they can be fixed

Thanks in advance for your support of Constitutional Carry effort in the 2013-2014 legislative session



UPDATE FEB 11, 2013 4:22PM this thread will be not be updated

Direct everyone to the current thread on the 2013-2014 session to get this passed, use the OP for referance and discussion thread from 2012

HB 671 Constitutional Carry – Rep Saccone 2013-2014 legislative effort
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...ve-effort.html

.
the battle to recover freedom lost decades ago has now begun once again

[thundrr1]

Emails sent tonight,,,,, faxes will be sent on Monday. Calls to locals will be all week, seeking more Cosponsors.

Thanks Whitefeather..... it is appreciated.


EDIT: bad addy.... toepel@pahousegop.com it bounced back...