FYI - Lower receiver sales/xfers - Did you know,

[Xringshooter]

That a FFL CANNOT sell or transfer a stripped lower receiver to anyone under 21 years old. On the ATF Form 4473, the FFL must mark the type of firearm(s) to be transferred (Handgun, Long gun, Other [frame, receiver, etc.]).

Here is how they define "Other": "...refers to frames, receivers, and other firearms that are not either handguns or long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms."

continuing:

"If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they are still "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See Section 921(a)(3)(b). 18 USC Section 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21. Also, note that multiple sales forms are not required for frames or receivers of any firearms, or pistol grip firearms, since they are not "pistols or revolvers" under Section 923(g)(3)(a).


Basically this means that if someone under 21 orders a stripped lower from an on line dealer and it is sent to me to do the transfer, I can't.

Before you argue "I've already paid for it and they never said anything to me, and you're not selling it to me" Remember, Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle ," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21. The BATFE, when they examine my Aquisition/Disposition book, just see that I aquired the receiver from someone and disposed it to someone else. If disposed to someone under 21, I am in trouble, no matter what I try to tell them.

If you then argue that "I'll get a buddy that is over 21 to pick it up." Well, I'm not going to transfer it to any person that comes in and says "Joe told me that I can pick it up." Without something in writing from "Joe" I'm not releasing it. If buddy comes in with a bill of sale/release from you, I'll transfer it to him and he can do with it what he wants.

Luckily I haven't run into this yet.

[Emptymag]

Interesting.

Effed up, but interesting.

[SteveWag]

I have run into the “must be 21”, fortunately the buyer only had to wait 2 weeks. This restriction only became apparent, to me, with the issuance of the new 4473’s, although it must have been law for some time. I have transferred lowers to less than 21 year olds using the old form. I wonder if the State will decide to handle lowers as “firearms’ and require the SP 4-113 be executed?

Steve

[Xringshooter]

SteveWag,
That's where I noticed it also, on the new 4473. I happened to be doing a lower transfer and at first marked long gun, then reread the "Other" and read the explanation for block 18. Thought others may need to know.

[SteveWag]

When the (new) yellow forms were received, I started to use them and threw the extra white ones away. Not looking, I assumed the third block still meant “Both”, until I had a “Both”. Then I started reading. Ironically, the purchaser (a board member) already knew and asked if I had any old forms to use! I did not so he had to wait.

Steve

[GunLawyer001]

......
If you then argue that "I'll get a buddy that is over 21 to pick it up." Well, I'm not going to transfer it to any person that comes in and says "Joe told me that I can pick it up." Without something in writing from "Joe" I'm not releasing it. If buddy comes in with a bill of sale/release from you, I'll transfer it to him and he can do with it what he wants.

........

That sounds a bit like a straw purchase, doesn't it? If the original guy is prohibited from taking possession, and he sends in a substitute buyer, an argument can be made that you "should know" that it's a straw purchase.

If the shop puts it up for sale as a consignment, that's different.

It highlights the ambiguity of straw purchasers. I can think of many perfectly legitimate circumstances where a man is helping a woman to buy her first handgun, or a buddy wants to get a gun just like yours so you take him to the store and tell him which model it is. But the Brady folks assume that every gun purchase is presumptively illicit, and Governor Rendell and the entire Philadelphia city government go along with that.

As for whether current statutes prohibit someone under 21 from acquiring a stripped rifle frame from an FFL, I have no opinion, but there's a lot of precedent for bureaucrats making arbitrary determinations that are more restrictive than the statutes are. Look at the various Sheriff's websites on what you can't do with your LTCF.

[Xringshooter]

GunLawyer001 - I agree that it does smack of a straw purchase. However, if Joe has sold the rights to the lower to another person (remember, the lower has already been paid for before it got to me) and the person has a bill of sale, I would make a copy of the bill of sale and keep it with the 4473 if anything came up later. Again, it (the bill of sale) in this case is probably false, and the lower is probably going to the original purchaser anyway, but I can't prove it.

I guess there actually are a few options,
1. Keep it until the original purchaser turns 21
2. Return it to the seller (with the original purchasers permission)
3. Do the transfer on a person that has a bill of sale from the original purchaser
4. Offer to buy it from the original purchaser for resale
5. Offer to buy it from the original purchaser, build it into the rifle the original purchaser wants and then sell it to him as a rifle

[GunLawyer001]

GunLawyer001 - I agree that it does smack of a straw purchase. However, if Joe has sold the rights to the lower to another person (remember, the lower has already been paid for before it got to me) and the person has a bill of sale, I would make a copy of the bill of sale and keep it with the 4473 if anything came up later. Again, it (the bill of sale) in this case is probably false, and the lower is probably going to the original purchaser anyway, but I can't prove it.

I guess there actually are a few options,
1. Keep it until the original purchaser turns 21
2. Return it to the seller (with the original purchasers permission)
3. Do the transfer on a person that has a bill of sale from the original purchaser
4. Offer to buy it from the original purchaser for resale
5. Offer to buy it from the original purchaser, build it into the rifle the original purchaser wants and then sell it to him as a rifle

I'm sure that firearms aren't the only area where the government threatens sanctions but fails to offer any certainty. They will prosecute you (or pull your FFL) for a straw purchase, but they have nothing better than "examples" of what a straw purchase might look like. Many possible straw purchases are perfectly legit, people helping the real buyers select a gun that's appropriate for them.

Anyway, I suppose it's possible to slap a tube and buttstock on an otherwise stripped lower, then document the sale as a rifle; once it has a buttstock, it can never be a pistol without filing a Form 1. Even after the Thompson-Center case, an incomplete rifle with a buttstock but no barrel or internals or upper, is still a rifle.

As for selling to someone else, you could reduce (but not eliminate) the chances of being second-guessed by extensively interviewing the prospective substitute buyer, ask him his plans for the lower, whether he's a shooter, etc. As you pointed out, there really is a chance that the substitute buyer in this case is just going to hand it over to the underaged original buyer.

[eells]

alright, so now would you be able to take his reciver, that the underage already paid for, then build it into a full rifle (at cost and request), then transfer it to him as a long gun, then offer to buy back the upper reciver?

[Xringshooter]

alright, so now would you be able to take his reciver, that the underage already paid for, then build it into a full rifle (at cost and request), then transfer it to him as a long gun, then offer to buy back the upper reciver?

As far as I can see, the Feds would probably try to press the case that you were willfully trying to skirt the law to deliver a part that the person was not allowed to be transferred via a FFL.

Now, if the original buyer asked the FFL to buy it from him, the FFL could do that. If the next day a person came in looking for a stripped lower, the FFL may be a bit suspicious and asks if the person interested in the lower knows original buyer. If he says no, the FFL has no way of verifying the statement. He then sells it to the person, who meets all requirements (over 21 and passes PICS). The new buyer and the FFL have legally completed all the requirements. That person then turns around and sells it back to the original buyer FTF, no laws were broken. Might seem suspicious to the Feds but nothing illegal was done.