How to get an NFA Licence?

[Skuggi]

Hey I searched but couldnt find anything, one thing I'm thinking about getting is my NFA license. I've also searched the web with little help except go ask your BATFE... Can anyone make an idiots guide so to speak for me?

[JayBell]

you need to be a little more clear on what kind of info you are looking for.

Are you looking to PURCHASE NFA weapons for your own use, or are you looking to actually get a license to deal, or manufacture these items?

if purchase for your own personal use, then hit the link here that I wrote up:

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/nfa-class...a-jaybell.html

if you want to actually get a license to deal in, or manufacture, then start here. Read up, check the types of licenses an costs.
Check the FAQs, ther is some data to go thru before you decide what to do. NFA licensing isn't cheap once everything is added up, and it's easy to make mistakes with paperwork that can affect you, and evrybody you sell/buy from.
Further, you can't just get a SOT to make NFA for you to just play with, you are in business:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/fflc/index.htm



I also suggest you read this link in FULL...and ake sure you understand it:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wb...st/nfa_faq.txt

[Mtdew]

*EDIT*

I was SLOWLY typing wile JayBell posted his better response which includes his link that go's into much better detail than my post.

**I need to read the stickies here**
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There is no NFA "license" unless you mean you want to become a NFA dealer or manufacturer. In which case you become a dealer or manufacturer first then in July of each year pay you annual $500 SOT fee. There is also a annual $1750 ITAR fee as well. Getting the SOT status is the easy part. Becomming a dealer or especially a manufacturer is the hard part.

Now if you just want to own NFA items well that's a lot easier.

Each item requires a $200 tax (stamp) paid to the ATF every time it is transfered an individual. That applies to silencers/SBRs/SBSs/MGs or DDs (AOW's are only a $5 tax [stamp] when it's a transfer.) You can legally make a Silencer, SBR, SBS, DD, or AOW (again each require a $200 tax stamp even AOW's)

YOU CAN'T make a MG. All Transferable MG's were made before May 19 1986 (when the MG ban was passed) only those MG's registered before that date can be owned by Civilians. Thats the reason a M16 is going to cost you 10-25K

with that out of the way

It's *relativly* simple to aquire NFA items.

If you want to buy a NFA item.
1. Find a dealer or indvidual that has the item you want for sale. (if it's out of state it will have to be transfered to an in state dealer before it can be transfered to you)
2. pay for the item (in the world of NFA you pay long before you get the item)
3. once the item is in state fill out a form-4, get your picture taken, get fingerprinted, get a CLEO signoff, fill out the COC, write out a check for $200 and send all that to the ATF office in Atlanta. (a trust or LLC bypasses the pic, prints and CLEO)
4. Wait approx 1 month (this used to take much much longer) for your transfer to be approved, and sent back to your dealer or indvidual you purchased the item from.
5. Wait for your dealer or or indvidual you purchased the item from to call you so you can come over and pick up your toy
6. enjoy your toy

Now if you want to build a Silencer, SBR, SBS, AOW or DD
1.fill out a form-1, get your picture taken, get fingerprinted, get a CLEO signoff, FIll out teh COC, write out a check for $200 and send all that to the ATF office in WV. (a trust or LLC bypasses the pic, prints and CLEO)
2. Wait approx 1 month (this used to take much much longer) for your application to make a firearm to be approved, and sent back to you.
3. build your item
4. enjoy your new toy

note that atf is currently rejecting their "new revised" form-1 (yes thay are rejecting their own form) the link i posted is to the old form-1. It is the only currently acceptable form-1. The atf sig block MUST be on the front. this little issue is causing a lot of kick backs


*EDIT*

I was SLOWLY typing wile JayBell posted his better response which includes his link that go's into much better detail than my post.

**I need to read the stickies here**

[Skuggi]

sorry for not being so clear, I was talking about purchasing. And thanks for the replies both of you, it seems pretty easy and straight forward, except I don't know about getting the Stowe TWP. Chief to sign off on it. (I'm guessing that would be the local CLEO?) I had been confused because I thought you had to have a seperate license to own one like my carry permit.

*Edit* Using and LLC could I go through the gym I manage? I dont think so but just wondering.

[Mtdew]

*Edit* Using and LLC could I go through the gym I manage? I dont think so but just wondering.

If you own the gym then you could, but it would be a bad idea anyway.

The currently most popular way to go is with a Revocable Living Trust over a LLC. The trust has no annual fees or seperate taxes and there's no fighting about who gets your stuff when you die.

The process is simple.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942

*cliff note version*
buy Quicken Willmaker, create a trust, print out the declaration and certification of trust, take it to a notary and get it notarized, make copies of the certification, Send in the copy of the Cert w/ your NFA transfer aplication.

If you have any reason to belive Quicken is not "good enough" for your particular situation then you would need to seek an attorney to draft you a suitable Trust

[GunLawyer001]

If you own the gym then you could, but it would be a bad idea anyway.

The currently most popular way to go is with a Revocable Living Trust over a LLC. The trust has no annual fees or seperate taxes and there's no fighting about who gets your stuff when you die.

The process is simple.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942

*cliff note version*
buy Quicken Willmaker, create a trust, print out the declaration and certification of trust, take it to a notary and get it notarized, make copies of the certification, Send in the copy of the Cert w/ your NFA transfer aplication.

If you have any reason to belive Quicken is not "good enough" for your particular situation then you would need to seek an attorney to draft you a suitable Trust

I have reason to believe that Quicken is a bad idea for anyone to use for an NFA trust, except an attorney. I'm an attorney, and I'll often start with software that generates the outline of a trust or a will or an LLC operating agreement, because I know what changes to make so that the document fits my purpose.
A non-attorney, even a smart one, just doesn't know what he doesn't know, so he'll happily prepare a sharp-looking document that has a fatal flaw in it. The clerks at the county or State level will duly stamp it and file it, and ATF will probably approve transfers of expensive toys to it. But then something will go wrong, years down the road, and you'll find out that you've transferred $50K worth of NFA toys into a defective and invalid entity. This then gives you a terrific opportunity to spend $20K on a lawyer to undo the damage before your toys are seized.
How many people here understand the elements of a trust, who can serve as trustee, what a beneficiary is, who is entitled to custody and control of NFA devices, and what fiduciary duties are involved?
A trust will eventually prove to be a bad vehicle for NFA investments, even though there are many testimonials to how great they work. There are also many stories about those gas-saving magnets, copper arthritis bracelets, and multi-level marketing opportunities.
Hire an attorney to create a valid LLC, with an appropriate operating agreement. No annual taxes unless you make money with it, and you can transfer ownership of the LLC in a will.

[Skuggi]

wow that could be very easy especially since my boss is also a notary

[Skuggi]

sorry missed your post lawyer, how much do lawyers usually charge to setup this kind of thing? Or if when I go to do this, would we have to meet or could I hire you and do it over the phone since you know your stuff about guns?

[GunLawyer001]

I try not to pick up clients here, it creates a bit of a conflict, but if you ask DanP for a legal referral in your area, I'm sure he has some options.

I do these over the phone and through the mail. The LLC is the easier part, the operating agreement is more critical since that's the link between ownership of the NFA item and your possession of it. You need to have something more than a stamped Form 4 showing an approved transfer to your company, something that you can show to a cop when he finds the weapon grasped in your own personal hands at the range. Same goes for a trust, a corporation or an LLC, the individual person doesn't have the right to possess the item unless the company says he does, in writing.

Whoever you hire, make sure he/she understands NFA laws. Any accountant or lawyer can set you up in a corp or LLC, but most of them have never dealt with the National Firearms Act. Ask them if they know what modifications are needed for NFA use.

Costs are manageable (compared to the cost of a single transferable MG), a one-time investment probably between $400-$800 to the lawyer and $125 to the Commonwealth, then you can buy as many items as you want through the same entity. I recommend consulting an accountant from time to time, every few years, just to see if PA law has changed. There used to be a minimum annual tax for corporations, but that was phased out. It could come back & be applied to corps, LLC's, and trusts, and an accountant would know this.

[Skuggi]

Awesome, I already got a name and a number, but it's still going to be awhile till I can afford one, though I have a plan to try and get my uncle to transfer me over one of his old ones from across the state. I just hope it's actually registered as he's pretty old, and I have no clue if his are registered or what, I would assume they are as he was a man of the law.