When can you pull...?

[voola]

B"H

Hello Guys, I have a practical theory question.

a) What if I walk into a store and a guy walks in after me and starts to rob the cashier with a gun ( i.e. says "give me all the money") could you shoot the guy in such a situation? or shouldnt you shoot him because his intent is to get the money not to fire at the cashier. Just wondering what would be the right thing to do when you "see a threat to you or someone else but its not really direct but kind of indirect", in this case for the money not to kill the cashier.

b) could i shoot the robber after he leaves the store?

c) will the cashier/owner of the store be more justified in shooting the crook?

[mpan72]

IANAL. I think the answers to a and c could vary with different circumstances. I think the answer to b would be no. If you follow the person out of the store and shoot him You would probably be in a world of shit.

[DrRansom]

B"H

Hello Guys, I have a practical theory question.

a) What if I walk into a store and a guy walks in after me and starts to rob the cashier with a gun ( i.e. says "give me all the money") could you shoot the guy in such a situation? or shouldnt you shoot him because his intent is to get the money not to fire at the cashier. Just wondering what would be the right thing to do when you "see a threat to you or someone else but its not really direct but kind of indirect", in this case for the money not to kill the cashier.

b) could i shoot the robber after he leaves the store?

c) will the cashier/owner of the store be more justified in shooting the crook?

a) If I feel I or a member of my family is in danger of their life, I draw and lay them out, no questions asked. If someone points a gun at someone malevolently very near me, that qualifies as life-threatening danger. IANAL, but I believe most judges would agree. Also, do not ever shoot to wound -- shoot until the threat is over. That may not be just when they are on the ground.

b) at this point, your life is not in danger. do NOT follow someone, or find and shoot them -- that looks terrible in court, which is what this is really getting down to. A fella in OK was sentenced to murder for something much less than this, I'll find links if your interested.

c) shrug. but who knows if he can or will?

[mpan72]

a) If I feel I or a member of my family is in danger of their life, I draw and lay them out, no questions asked. If someone points a gun at someone malevolently very near me, that qualifies as life-threatening danger. IANAL, but I believe most judges would agree. Also, do not ever shoot to wound -- shoot until the threat is over. That may not be just when they are on the ground.

b) at this point, your life is not in danger. do NOT follow someone, or find and shoot them -- that looks terrible in court, which is what this is really getting down to. A fella in OK was sentenced to murder for something much less than this, I'll find links if your interested.

c) shrug. but who knows if he can or will?

It would be a DA and or a jury who would have to agree, (in most cases).

[hawkdoc60]

I have thought about this a lot over the years. My personal opinion is that if this scenario happens, I will try to hide, but with my gun in hand. If I am found out, I will then assess the situation and if the guy points the gun at me, or my family, I will lay him out. I will then take my chances with a jury. I, personally, will not try to play hero to let the convenience store keep its money. That money is insured. If, however, a direct threat is made to me, or a member of my family, I will react at that point, appropriately.

[DrRansom]

It would be a DA and or a jury who would have to agree, (in most cases).

I stand corrected. Hopefully I'll never have the chance to find out first hand.

Regarding question b), here's a thread about that kind of activity and how juries react to that kind of story...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...+degree+murder

[ErSwnn]

As is always the case, your scenerio will be unique. They always are. No two events ever go down the same way...their like snowflakes. You have to access the threat. Is the gun real? Does the criminal seem nervous and if so, just jittery or the more sinister form of nervousness....intent on doing harm and waiting for the moment? Or his he calm, and if so, calm because he is heading out the door or calm because he already made up his mind someone is getting shot? Is his demeanor hateful or more subdued? Has he expressed a threat? The list goes on.

The short answer, IMO, is no, you shouldn't take the shot unless your certain the threat is real and active.

Follow him out the door and take the shot....your going to prison.

If the shot is to be made....don't shoot to kill, shoot to stop the threat. Of course, the most effective way to stop the threat is a well placed shot that drops the target dead before it hits the floor. Kneecapping or shooting the gun out of his hand is Hollywood fantasy. Self-defense is not about killing or wounding, it's about stopping the threat. If the threat stops, so do the shots whether the criminal is alive or dead.

The person most directly threatened is the most likely to be found justified to make the shot, but we all have the ability to stop the threat to others if we are within the legal parameters of a justified shoot.

[ByblosHex]

I would not kill to save money. I would kill to save a threatened life.

What happens after... happens. I'd be able to live with myself in Jail for the rest of my life knowing I did the right thing. I would not be able to live with myself going to bed every night knowing someone was murdered in front of me and I could've stopped it.

That's just me.

[jshwak]

oh man, I hate situational threads (no offense)...
I always give the same answer to any person that ask me this very question (or any hypothetical)..
----
q: when should I shoot, pull, blah blah blah ?


My answer: if you truly believe that your life or another persons life is in immediate mortal danger; you will not give a shit.

[ViperGTS19801]

Not going to repeat what everyone else here is saying, since I agree for the most part. However...

...if I'm in a store and someone comes in to rob the joint, and is pointing a gun at someone, and I have the opportunity to react, I will. I'd rather go to court and have to defend myself against shooting an armed robber than have to live with knowing that I could have saved someone's life and chose not to because I was afraid of the judicial system.

"Put the gun down or I'll shoot" sounds like a good opening line from down the aisle behind the gunman, lol.