Difficult to research question

**GetOverIt** · January 24th, 2009, 04:57 PM

I know of a situation where one friend bought another a Buckshot 12 gage gun because the guy could not get it in his own name due to DUI.
Anyway, This so called friend is not in the picture any longer due to his illegal activities, and the one that has the gun (used only for hunting) is scared of trouble from the one who bought it for him.

How, legally, could this be taken care of?

He would like to keep the gun, but would have no problem turning it over to proper authorities if needed. I am just not sure what he needs to do. The guy who's name it is in is a very slimy and underhanded liar, and would not think twice to cause problems for the one possessing the firearm.

Any suggestions to point us in the right direction would be helpful! And appreciated!!

**imperialism2024** · January 24th, 2009, 05:14 PM

If the purchase did not take place in Pennsylvania, then ignore the rest of this post.

If it did take place in Pennsylvania, here's the best of my knowledge regarding the situation:

First off, there is no registration for guns in Pennsylvania, although there is a registry-that-isn't-a-registry for handguns. Regardless, shotguns are absolutely not registered. So nothing is in anyone's name.

AFAIK, a single DUI is not a prohibiting offense. So, I'm not sure how he would not have been able to pass the background check.

I also have been led to believe that the legal burden of an illegal transfer falls on the transferer, not the transferee. So the friend who bought the gun is the one who could get in trouble, not the one who received the gun.

I am not a lawyer, so this advice could be wrong... wait for confirmation before acting on information provided in this post.

**Xringshooter** · January 24th, 2009, 09:05 PM

If the friend that had the DUI has nothing else that prohibits him from owning guns, then he should be ok. However, IIRC, DUI's have different classes and a certain type of DUI may be a prohibiting factor. He needs to find out the class of his conviction. If he is prohibited, he needs to get rid of the gun (sell it to you, whatever). That said, the onus is on both people if they conspired to have guy#1 buy a gun for guy#2 if guy #2 was prohibited. That would be a straw purchase and if they both discussed that matter they are both in trouble. If they did not conspire, and guy#2 is not prohibited then it would be tough to prove that guy#1 did anything wrong. Guy#1 could say that he bought it and decided he didn't like it so he sold it to guy#2. Unless guy#2 is prohibited, no laws were broken. If guy #1 knew guy#2 was prohibited, guy#1 and guy#2 broke a law. Guy#1 for selling to a prohibited person and guy#2 broke the law (if he was prohibited) by purchasing a gun when he knew he was not allowed.

The gun is in guy#1's name only on the ATF form 4473 and in the FFL's bound book, there are no other forms that get filled out when someone buys a long arm (rifle or shotgun).

**lexington86** · January 24th, 2009, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by imperialism2024

AFAIK, a single DUI is not a prohibiting offense. So, I'm not sure how he would not have been able to pass the background check.

A single DUI is not a prohibiting defense, but the probation that results from that offense is (only for 12 months).

**Rudiger** · January 25th, 2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by lexington86

A single DUI is not a prohibiting defense, but the probation that results from that offense is (only for 12 months).

I don't belive that is correct. I am currently on probation for a single DUI offense. My probation officer said there was nothing prohibiting from buying guns. So I did. I was delayed for 3 weeks but was approved.

**NineseveN** · January 25th, 2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Rudiger

I don't belive that is correct. I am currently on probation for a single DUI offense. My probation officer said there was nothing prohibiting from buying guns. So I did. I was delayed for 3 weeks but was approved.

That, IIRC, depends on your PO and the county your probation is in (and often the offense). I don't know that there's a specific state law, but gun prohibition can be part of your probation if the PO or court decides it is. So you'd likely pass a PICS check even if your PO says no guns, but if you violate the terms of the probation it will probably be revoked.

**GunLawyer001** · January 25th, 2009, 02:32 PM

Sounds messy.

Purely as a generic hypothetical:

It's possible to be prohibited because of a single, serious DUI, if there are injuries and the BAC is high enough. I have a spreadsheet that lays it out, the law was "fixed" around 5 years ago and made much more complicated. Every 1st degree misdemeanor is permanently prohibiting.

It's also prohibiting to have 3 DUI's of any stripe in a 5 year period. If you can't pass PICS, assume you're prohibited until you establish otherwise.

Probation can result in temporary disarmament, too, if that's written in as a condition.

Selling a firearm (including a shotgun) to a prohibited person is an offense. Receiving and possessing a firearm while you're prohibited is an offense. If the original buyer reports it as "stolen", that's a criminal offense for filing a false police report. If the original buyer just dimes the buyer out to the police and recites the facts of the straw purchase, he necessarily is implicating himself, unless the statutory period has expired (and the transfer has a time limit, while the continued unlawful possession would not).

A prohibited person who divests himself of a firearm before the police find it in his possession has effectively pre-empted any prosecution, practically speaking. There have been exceptions, if you pose for a calendar with a gun while you're prohibited, or post yourself on YouTube shooting a gun while prohibited, you may expect to be spanked a bit.

If the current possessor is in fact prohibited, I'd lean towards selling the gun, and divulging the fact that the original buyer may be a problem. Sell it at a heavy discount to someone willing to take the risk that the original badass will file a false theft report.

On the other hand, it's always good to be sure of the facts, and determine whether you're really prohibited. And here's a blatant ad for my workshop series, where this sort of thing is discussed in detail:

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...op-series.html