Honest Questions.

[Morel42]

Ok after (many) posts about who's better, who's anti-gun, who's pro-gun, whos worse Hillary or Obama etc etc..

Lets put all that aside..

What do you we do after the election is over? Be it either Hillary, Obama, or McCain? What do we do leading up
to the Primaries? After? Sure we can flamewar on, or whine to our realitives about how nobody in Gov't understands, or
how the damn Dem's will take our guns.

Which of course.. Ends up changing nothing at all.

So why not discuss what we CAN do, leading up to the primaries and even after Nov 4th election. No matter who
we end up getting. Mass emails? Petitions? Faxes? Letter writing campaigns? Public education?

Because when it comes right down to it, it really doesn't matter who I think it's the best, or the worse,
or even this entire forum really. The truth is we have to figure out how to actually become someone they have to listen to..

You may hate Democrats with every fiber of your being.. But hating them isn't going to change anything. Sure most of us belong
to the NRA (I hope) And many of us have donated to this organization, but it's not enough.. We have to put aside whatever disgust
we may have with someones personal beliefs and actually do something constructive. Something that would actually have an
impact (how ever small) on the future..

PA is going to be center stage in the primaries (at least democratic) for the first time in a long, long time. Which elevates
what we say and what we think formost in each parties mindset. I would like to think we all can come together on this one
subject, Since every one of us here Democrat, Republican, or Independant all have one thing in common..

Our belief in the 2nd amendment (and every other one for that matter ) We can fight over everything else later....

Remember, the only reason the unqualified and corrupt ever rise to power is because those who should do nothing.
It's how the Democratic AND the Republican parties have gotten so out of wack lately.

So, what do you say guys? Lets stop fighting with each other*, and lets do some brainstorming..




*or I can just call McCain a name and we can yell at each other some more..

[sluggie24]

I would say at this point IMHO there isn't much of a difference between the 3 top candidates. Yes I would rather a Republican get in but I think by the end of his term he will of gotten to the same point as the Dems just at a slower pace. I am still going to vote my mind and even though he may not be in the race come Nov I will write in Ron Paul. He may not win but it will send a message if enough people do it.

The only other thing I could suggest is warm up that credit card and do some shopping before the new pres is in. Buy it before they can ban it.

[mauser]

What we can do is DON'T GIVE UP! We have 3 branches of government in this great country.
What we can do, or more aptly stated, what we MUST do, is seat and keep Representatives and Senators who's views are more aligned with our own.
We must also communicate our positions, opinions, concerns, etc. to our Representatives and Senators, whether they be Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Independent, or whatever. Let them know where you stand on the issues that are important to you, what you expect of them, and how their position and actions will affect the way you vote.
Our votes count. Every position that is up for election is important, whether it be Township Supervisor, Sheriff, School Board, you name it, it's important that those elected represent YOU.
Be an informed voter. An uninformed vote is as dangerous as no vote.

[phillyd2]

What can we do after the election? Nothing. Not a damn thing. We should have been working harder on a local level to elect State & Congress reps that are more friendly to our side. If that was done the Prez (any Prez) could have proposed whatever they wanted and our friends would have been there to block them, nationally & locally.

Hope some at least have learned their lesson. Hoping for the impossible Hail Mary Pass of Ron Paul was the same as hoping for the Easter Bunny. Yet some will still write in Paul's name or stay at home because "they are all the same".

Millions Spent. More Millions of words spoken / written and the result is where we are. Would be funny if not so sad & tragic. How we enjoying the government we deserve?

[Morel42]

Well I think you'd have to start with public opinion really. Correct or not, there are a lot of people who think that only criminals have guns, and that the police are responcible for protecting us..

How would you convince as many people as possible that honest law abiding citizens being armed in public places would be a good thing to all involved? I know it sounds heartless but even the recent slew of shootings can be turned into something of a talking point..

From my experience you really have to put aside how you feel, and ask honestly "how do we get people to agree with us?" Even if that requires using peoples fear against them.

Say having a flyer (fold out) saying that Police can't protect you, who will stop an intruder in your home? Who will protect your family? etc etc.. Drive home the idea that having your neighbors being armed is a layer of protection..

All the while you have to maintain an image that most citizens who carry are skilled in the use of there firearms.. We kind of fail sometimes in this, we all have seen the punk kid who thinks carrying is cool, and wants to be a badass. Well that one moron can burn the idea of "Gun owners are Rambo wannabes" To the average housewife..

I've actually done alot of thinking on this today, So if you were going to create a high quality brochure, what would you be sure to include in it?

[Broomhandle]

Hope some at least have learned their lesson. Hoping for the impossible Hail Mary Pass of Ron Paul was the same as hoping for the Easter Bunny. Yet some will still write in Paul's name or stay at home because "they are all the same".

What crap! Ron barely got better than 4% in most primaries and did better that Tancredo and Hunter, two candidates that were totaly mainstream and as fiscally conservative. Thompson did better but dropped out because he didn't give a shit. Just what difference would Paul's 4% have made? What primary have you been tracking?

Let me sum up the current state of the Republican party and why voting for them is utterly pointless with what I think is a small but very telling anecdote. In the FL debate Tancredo told the crowd that the country was too bankrupt to spend money on sending a man to mars. He said he would not do it because the country could not afford it. After he spoke there was dead silence. He might as well have been speaking in Japanese. Then Huckabee spoke a few minuts later about how he was going to protect our marrages from gay people, and he got thunderous applause. And he is still in the race. I could cite similar examples with Paul and Thompson talking issues versus Romney screaming "family values" Rudy telling us how "they hate our freedoms", but I think you get the point.

That my friend is why there is no hope and no reason to vote for the Republican party. Not Paul's measly 4%.

==============================
OK, to address the point of this thread.
Have hope! There will be a backlash to whatever the next emperor (let's call him McObamiton) does. We need to do everything we can to support our true friends. I plan to donate to Paul's congressional effort, and when Tancredo runs for the Senate I will be gereous there as well. Locally we can make clear that we won't accept the "famly values" and "war on terror" smokescreen in place of real results. It will mean organizing and showing up at meetings and being obnoxious and replacing many of the current Republican comittie people (the same sacks of s**t that just endorsed McCain). It will mean activism and public speaking and returning to a simple unifying message of small, constitutionaly limited, and low cost government - and nothing else.

[Morel42]

http://a2dems.net/

W00t

[WhiteFeather]

Ok after (many) posts about who's better, who's anti-gun, who's pro-gun, whos worse Hillary or Obama etc etc..

Lets put all that aside..

What do you we do after the election is over? Be it either Hillary, Obama, or McCain? What do we do leading up
to the Primaries? After? Sure we can flamewar on, or whine to our realitives about how nobody in Gov't understands, or
how the damn Dem's will take our guns.

Which of course.. Ends up changing nothing at all.

So why not discuss what we CAN do, leading up to the primaries and even after Nov 4th election. No matter who
we end up getting. Mass emails? Petitions? Faxes? Letter writing campaigns? Public education?

Because when it comes right down to it, it really doesn't matter who I think it's the best, or the worse,
or even this entire forum really. The truth is we have to figure out how to actually become someone they have to listen to..

You may hate Democrats with every fiber of your being.. But hating them isn't going to change anything. Sure most of us belong
to the NRA (I hope) And many of us have donated to this organization, but it's not enough.. We have to put aside whatever disgust
we may have with someones personal beliefs and actually do something constructive. Something that would actually have an
impact (how ever small) on the future..

PA is going to be center stage in the primaries (at least democratic) for the first time in a long, long time. Which elevates
what we say and what we think formost in each parties mindset. I would like to think we all can come together on this one
subject, Since every one of us here Democrat, Republican, or Independant all have one thing in common..

Our belief in the 2nd amendment (and every other one for that matter ) We can fight over everything else later....

Remember, the only reason the unqualified and corrupt ever rise to power is because those who should do nothing.
It's how the Democratic AND the Republican parties have gotten so out of wack lately.

So, what do you say guys? Lets stop fighting with each other*, and lets do some brainstorming..



*or I can just call McCain a name and we can yell at each other some more..

Have you ever been to FOAC (Firearms Owners Against Crime) web site?

http://www.foac-pac.org/

The election of president is ONLY ONE RACE, there are numerous state elections races who wins will matter and effect everyone directly than the election of president unless they declare marshal law.

To illustrate my point
How many posts on PAFOA are about federal gun law violation or problems?
How many posts are about local or state problems with PA laws?
So why is everyone so obsessed over the election of president?
In many state races for house Reps positions a few as a couple hundred votes is all that is between having a anti-gun versus a PRO-GUN occupying those positions. The democrats hold control of the house by one single vote and the leader of the democrats (pro-gun) is Bill DeWeese speaker of the house won last time by less than 400 votes, that about the size of one gun club membership that could change the outcome.

http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/pa_p...egislation.htm

IF you read all those introduced anti-gun bills the ONLY thing stopping them from becoming law in PA is the pro gun reps in the house both democrat and republican mostly from western or northern half of PA. IF those pro gun reps were NOT voting against those bills, they would be laws today that almost EVERYONE on PAFOA would be complaining about with the same old line, HOW CAN THEY DO THIS, __________ fill in the blank, its unconstitutional, its wrong or what ever.

So quit worrying about one person vote out of 300 million and start worrying about the votes that are local that effect all of gun owners the most. Get personally involved, and fight for your rights, donate your time to Pro-Gun Reps or candidates.

Make and pass our FOAC voters guides to everyone that you know owns firearms.

DO SOMETHING, IF everyone would do a little a lot would get done to protect or rights.

If you don't like or want to join any existing gun rights groups (for whatever your reasons are), form your own group of like minded firearm owners and do something.......... All it takes is you donating your time and lots of hard work, which is why so many including me at one time only give lip service to doing our part to defend our rights.

+1 to some excellent points in your post

[Eugene V. Debs]

Mass demonstrations. Civil rights activists do them, anti-war activists do them, unions do them, socialists do them, pro and anti-abortion activists do them, and our enemies the gun-grabbers do them.

But not us.

Can you imagine a million gun owners marching on Washington? No right-wing rhetoric, just the simple and clear message that armed self-defense is a fundamental human right. Maybe add in some sit-ins and hunger strikes. It would make the Liberals' and gun grabbers' heads explode, and pull the moral high ground right from under their sanctimonious asses.

How about a campaign to charge the Fed government or various State or municipal entities with violating the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Article 3 states "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the security of person." Sounds like a right of self-defense to me. Publically filing charges at the UN and picketing the UN in NYC-- shit, the Liberals, statists and gun-grabbers wouldn't know what the fuck to do.

Writing letters and lobbying your lawmakers is all good, but we gun owners should start thinking outside the box, get creative, hone our message, build support, organize within communities, institutions, and organizations (even those traditionally hostile to us), and attack from every possible angle. What PAFOA did in solidarity for gnbrotz was great, we should think of even bigger public direct actions and demonstrations, along with long-term strategic organizing at the grassroots.

The right to bear arms is a human right? Well, then, let's start acting like it. Casting a ballot or writing a letter is good but simply not sufficient activity to defend a human right under assault from several quarters.

[Morel42]

Totally random thought I'd like to bring up but didn't want to start a whole new thread.

One of the problems is that almost every Pro-gun person (no matter what their other beliefs) have joined the Republican party.. And everyone who is Anti-gun has joined the Democratic party..

70-80 years ago, gun control really wasn't an issue since both parties had a healthy amount of people who carried, used, and owned guns.. It was just how it was..

Over the years, both parties grew apart so much, that now the very issue has become purely about which party has a majority.. Which isn't healthy, because no matter what each one is going to come into and out of power..

Does that make ANY sense whatsoever? lol

Be sneaky, instead of being hostile to someone who "doesn't like guns" Maybe the better approach is to try to educate? Even if you have to bite your tounge the entire time you're doing it heh.