Pistol apprently never transfered!

[229Mick]

So I get pulled over the other night as I'm going into a corporate park where I have a client that I do IT work for. State trooper saw me going in and since it was 1:30am, they thought it might be worth checking me out. They came up behind me and lit me up. I was already in park, so i pulled out my LTC, rolled down the window and put my hands on the wheel.

Cop 1 came up and asked me to keep my hands on the wheel, and I told him I had my LTC , which he saw, and noted that I was carrying my pistol. He said 'OK,how about ID?' I told him my wallet was on the same side as my pistol, and asked how he wanted to handle that. He replied that we could just wait a moment for his backup to secure it. His backup came up and Cop1 says 'he has a pistol...' and Cop2 goes for his gun!! Fortunately Cop1 quickly says, 'no, he has a license to carry and he is carrying'. OK, said Cop2, and he came around to the passenger side, asked where it was and I said on my hip. He says that he's going to secure it for the time being, and asks if it's loaded, and I say 'yes, and chambered'. He had me lift my jacket and took it from the holster and walked back to his car.

So I hand Cop1 my ID and he looks at that and asks why I was there, and explains that no one really comes in there at night so they like to check folks who are around that late (I would expect the fact that I was in a Jeep and there's a swamp down the hill didn't help me either). I said 'no problem' and he goes back to his car and runs my ID, which comes back clean and he returns it to me. He says that Cop2 is running the pistol and that he'll return it as soon as it comes back clean.

Cop 2 soon emerges from his car, and as he's passing behind my side view mirror, I hear a metallic CLANG! and see him reaching for the ground! Fortunately it was just the clip, which he had removed for safety's sake. He comes back to the passenger side and actually puts the pistol back in my holster, and sits the clip on the passenger seat and notes that he's not giving it back loaded, which of course is OK by me.

This is where it got a little weird, because at that point he says to me "is the pistol yours?" I said "Yes". He asks, 'where did you get it?', and I reply "I think we got it originally at --on line gun shop--, and my son bought it, and then later transferred it to me. He asked, what's your sons name, and I tell him (since my son's last name is different from mine), and he replies, 'OK, well it never transferred to you'. He then sees the shocked expression on my face and says 'it's no big deal, you're OK, but just so you know'.

Now THAT seemed weird! First, while I know that PA doesn't require an FFL transfer between parents and child, since he does have a different last name, I did the transfer just to avoid problems. It went through back in July and I have all the paperwork.

The other thing I thought was weird was that Cop2 RETURNED THE GUN TO ME and THEN asked about the discrepancy in the ownership. So after he had re-armed me, he asked why I had a gun that didn't appear to be registered to me???
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad, and quite surprised that the trooper didn't think it was a big deal that it wasn't properly transferred to me, etc, but it seemed weird.

The bigger concern now, is what do I do to find out where the transfer went wrong? I have the paper work with the approval code etc (and plan to keep a copy of that in the car till I get this resolved!), but I'm not sure if I should contact the FFL or the state? Also, is this unusual? That a transfer just goes bad or gets lost? I mean, i sat there as the FFL called it in and got the approval, so I know the state got it...

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions or thoughts, or even snide comments over the bizarre story, I'd love to hear it. Thanks all!

Mick

[B2Luv2Hunt]

I can not answer your Question but it made me think of one of my own.

Is a transfer check different than when you buy a gun? When you buy a gun the place they call is PICS. To see if you are allowed to buy a gun. The paper work is sent in after the sale.

[IronSight]

Why did you even mention that you had the firearm in the first place?

The PSP "database" is known to be inaccurate to a certain extent, and these inaccuracies have caused problems for law-abiding firearms owners in the past.

Furthermore, the police officer had no reason to suspect you didn't own the firearm, so running it through their inaccurate and incomplete database was absurd to begin with. Besides, there are numerous and obviously legal ways for a firearm "registered" to a PA resident to be sold and transferred such that it ends up legally owned by someone else in PA with no record going to the PSP.

I'd like to know when driving at 1:30 am became reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. It sounds like you had your rights violated from the very beginning of the stop, and frankly that disgusts me. They had no cause to pull you over and no cause to run your firearm through their database.

Edit: You have the paperwork showing the transfer, so I wouldn't worry too much about the PSP getting it wrong in their database. While you could visit the shop and double-check with them that everything was submitted properly, I don't see why it would really be worth bothering to do so.

[customloaded]

OP, what Ironsight wrote is true and 100% accurate. Second, are you sure they were state troopers of Pennsylvania? Dept Regs prohibit 1 man cars past 1200AM and therefore, cop 1 shouldn't have to wait for back up to arrive as its by dept reg, a two man patrol unit?

Also, you need to file complaints with the department, whatever dept it was, that stopped you. Why? Cause from the word go, they stepped all over you. You had not committed a traffic infraction. You were on private property and they stopped you. You have more rights to being where you were than they did. You were under no obligation to tell them anything.

Driving into an industrial park at 0130 AM does not give police the authority to randomly stop people and ask them for "PAPERS PLEASE!" Yes, its nice to feel safe but what they did was 100% illegal.

Now, if, after you parked and stopped your car, the officer rolled up and just started a conversation with you about baseball, the world ending, and whatever else, MERE ENCOUNTER, no problem. But these clowns conducted an illegal stop and detention, siezure of private property, as well as, your body. Holy shit batman, talk about thoroughly being pissed on.

They had no REASONABLE ARTICULABLE SUSPICION that you had committed a crime, were commiting a crime, or was about to commit a crime.

You were "PROFILED", STOPPED, DETAINED, ROBBED, the crooks eventrually allowed you to leave. Well, aren't you lucky!!!

CL

[DC2.2GSR]

Seriously, that response should be stickied and referenced on occasions like these. 229Mick, things were very wrong right from the start when you were pulled over simply because you were driving at 1:30am, and you let yourself get disarmed by an officer who is unfamiliar with your gun, while sitting in a car. To double up the danger factor, you were possibly almost shot because of a misunderstanding between the two troopers.

Never tell. License, registration, proof of insurance. That's it. Don't even keep your LTCF visible in your wallet in case one of them gets a peek at it. It will do nothing but cause problems like you experienced.

[bac0nfat]

This is absolutely unacceptable. The only thing worse than the conduct of the officers, is the fact that you seem completely okay with it. For your own sake, and the sake of our future generations, please read the constitution and learn what your rights are.

The fifth amendment alone could have stopped the whole thing from happening. Remember that your right to remain silent always exists, even before they read your Miranda Rights. You have no duty under federal or state law to inform that you have a weapon. You almost got yourself killed by informing them. You said yourself that one of the cops went for his gun and the other one had to stop him.

Also, you say that you are fine with them disarming you, and unloading your gun for "officer safety." What about your safety? Shouldn't they unload their weapons too, to keep everything fair? Or are they better than you, and the rules don't apply? Your call.

Got em for ya.

[G19]

Never tell.[/B] License, registration, proof of insurance. That's it. Don't even keep your LTCF visible in your wallet in case one of them gets a peek at it. It will do nothing but cause problems like you experienced.

I told him my wallet was on the same side as my pistol

In this situation, I would think it was better to tell the cop you are armed and have a LTCF then have him see the pistol and panic when you are reaching for your wallet.

But I understand your point, makes me consider where I should be carrying my wallet when driving.

[bac0nfat]

In this situation, I would think it was better to tell the cop you are armed and have a LTCF then have him see the pistol and panic when you are reaching for your wallet.

But I understand your point, makes me consider where I should be carrying my wallet when driving.

Thats why you get your wallet out before they approach the car. They always ask for your DL, so have it ready.

[NikeBauer21]

Thats why you get your wallet out before they approach the car. They always ask for your DL, so have it ready.

That could be dangerous at times though, depending on the situation. If the officer sees you ahead in your car bouncing around, reaching for something, it could make things worse when he approaches.


I personally keep hands on the wheel until the officer gets there... when he asks for my stuff, I say "My wallet is in my back pocket, and my registration is in the glove compartment", just so he knows where I'm reaching and for what. No need for him to even know the gun is on my hip, since it is completely irrelevant to the situation. Just grab your wallet, and get your ID out.

However this could be a bit of a problem when there is a second officer on the passenger side, as he will most likely see your gun, so if this is the case, you are almost forced to inform them prior, so the second officer doesn't shout "he's going for a gun!"..

Like with all stops, it depends on the person, and the situation. You just need to watch yourself though, that they don't confuse your fumbling around up there with "he's getting a gun out of the glove compartment" or something.

BTW, OP, you got hosed. I would, at the very least, file a complaint.

[ddefazio]

His backup came up and Cop1 says 'he has a pistol...' and Cop2 goes for his gun!! Fortunately Cop1 quickly says, 'no, he has a license to carry and he is carrying'. Mick

I wonder what unfortunately would look like???