Ramifications of 302 dismissed

**mirigraber** · October 6th, 2011, 10:48 AM

Hi. I'm new to forums and have a question which pertains to a family member. I checked previous threads and found a lot of info on 302s but nothing specific to a person being told a 302 is dismissed. This is the situation:

A 302 warrant was filed following a counseling session because the therapist felt our family member was a danger to himself. Later that day our family member went to the hospital and signed himself in on, I believe, a 201. The staff at the hospital told him the 302 was dismissed and would not be on his record. He was later told, by a doctor, that he can never own a firearm because a warrant was filed.

This is a young man who was seeking help and is now being told he can never (for the rest of his life) go hunting or own a gun. I read in other posts that this can be challenged but am not sure what that means or if it would pertain to our family member.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

**knight0334** · October 6th, 2011, 12:13 PM

I think there requires more than just a 302 warrant. I think some form of adjudication is required.

Hopefully GunLawyer001 sees this thread.. ...he knows this stuff really well.

**GunLawyer001** · October 6th, 2011, 12:40 PM

It really depends on the details, and 4th-party versions of the story aren't enough to form an opinion that's worth the time to read it.

The paperwork is what controls. What got sent to the State Police, if anything, will be treated as "what happened". More than one person thought he was signing himself in voluntarily, but the paperwork prepared and sent in told a different story. The paperwork wins all ties.

Doctors are not lawyers. Cops are not lawyers. A lot of lawyers aren't "gun lawyers" who are versed in these details (no offense to them, there are plenty of areas of the law where I don't practice; ask any lawyer about the Jones Act and what he'd do with a Merchant Marine client...) So you can usually discount any offhand comments made by anyone not directly involved, and by anyone who WAS directly involved who hasn't devoted a fair amount of time to the firearm rights aspect.

At it's heart, a 302 has to have required inpatient treatment to be prohibiting, and a certification to that effect must be present for any prohibition to arise under PA law.

If it matters enough, I'd hire legal counsel to obtain and review the paperwork. I'd also reflect (as one should in all such situations) on whether the individual's best interests are served right now by having access to a firearm. Some people go through bad patches and they might make bad choices under the current, temporary stresses. A gun in their hand could be bad for them, or those close to them. Others have been through a wringer and are fine now. Your family should take a candid look and see which applies.

**mirigraber** · October 7th, 2011, 08:52 AM

Hi. Thanks so much for the info! Thanks also for your advice on purchasing a firearm. There is no right-now plan.

It was a 201 admission and I'm sure of this because I was there at the time. But we have been told several conflicting things regarding the ramifications of a 302 warrant - none by legal professionals. I am concerned about the effect this will have on his record in all regards. If, as you said, a "302 has to have required inpatient treatment to be prohibiting" hopefully these effects will be minimal!

**mirigraber** · October 7th, 2011, 08:54 AM

Just reread my OP and wanted to clarify. I said, "I believe a 201" because I couldn't remember if it was a 202, 203 etc.

Thanks again!

**dahund** · May 16th, 2015, 03:50 AM

I was 302ed and when they had my hearing in mental health the judge/mental health review officer dismissed the involuntary emergency treatment because the PA state troopers could not agree whether I was a danger to myself or others. After the hearing I was asked if I would voluntarily commit and I did. It has been 13 years since this has happen. Would this still require me to be on the Pennsylvania State Police of the identity of any individual who has been adjudicated incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under this act or who has been involuntarily treated as described under > 18 Pa.C.S § 6105(c)(4) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms). I would appreciate any advice. GunLawyer001 if you see this, I would really appreciate your advice on how to proceed with this situation.

**Sgt.K** · May 16th, 2015, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by dahund

I was 302ed and when they had my hearing in mental health the judge/mental health review officer dismissed the involuntary emergency treatment because the PA state troopers could not agree whether I was a danger to myself or others. After the hearing I was asked if I would voluntarily commit and I did. It has been 13 years since this has happen. Would this still require me to be on the Pennsylvania State Police of the identity of any individual who has been adjudicated incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under this act or who has been involuntarily treated as described under > 18 Pa.C.S § 6105(c)(4) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms). I would appreciate any advice. GunLawyer001 if you see this, I would really appreciate your advice on how to proceed with this situation.

1. You are replying to a 3½-year-old thread.

2. If you want Phil (Gunlawyer001) to see this, there is a Private Message function - use it (trust me, it works).

3. Until you have handled #2, I recommend staying away from firearm purchases or LTCF applications.

My 2¢
IANAL
etc.

**GunLawyer001** · May 16th, 2015, 12:53 PM

The 302 situation is worse now than it was back then, due largely to the loss of the Keyes case (I didn't handle that one.)

If you are 302'ed, there is no actual relief possible since Keyes, in the absence of a substantive procedural error. The courts are suspicious of claims of such errors, and additional work from the same Bechtelsville law firm that lost Keyes has narrowed our options even more (see Appeal of T.B., 1059 WDA 2014).

You can get your state rights restored, but you still can't touch any guns or ammo, because you can't get Federal relief since Keyes.

The game has always been rigged against the citizen here. The hospitals discard their records after an arbitrary number of years; the county health departments don't always receive and keep a copy; and the State Police won't let you see what they have until it's too late.

If you think that you may have been 302'ed, the safest approach is to assume that you were. Otherwise, you risk "lying" to an FFL on the 4473, or making false written statements to a state official.

There are ways to minimize your risk while still exercising your fundamental civil rights, but getting a good lawyer will help to choose which way is best for you.