Sign posting violation at District Court

[GL23]

Been lurking around these parts for sometime now. I started to get really pissed off reading threads about people not respecting our 2A rights and lawful conduct. Something then happened. I guess an epiphany of sorts. It began with this letter (altering a great template I found on here) to my local District Court after I attended a hearing for two punks who tried to steal my kids trampoline from our yard at 0130 hrs. I caught them in the act.....more on that in a future thread. Here is my first of what I hope are many "activist" letters.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 4, 2008

Honorable William D. Kraut
Magisterial District Court 15-2-03
601 Westtown Rd # 110
West Chester, PA 19382


Dear Judge Kraut,

18 Pa.C.S. §913a prohibits the carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons into a court facility. Further, §913d requires that notice of §913a be prominently posted at the entrance of such a court facility. Such a posting exists at Magisterial District Court 15-2-03.

18 Pa.C.S. §913e requires that court facilities make available “lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law.”

When I recently visited the your court I noticed the absence of a posting as it relates to subsection e. Your staff also informed me that there were no lockers available for checking of firearms.

My understanding is that Magisterial District Court 15-2-03 of Chester County meets the definitions of a “court facility” as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. §913f. Storage facilities for firearms are required per 18 Pa.C.S. §913e.

If, however, Magisterial District Court 15-2-03 of Chester County does not meet the definitions of a “court facility” as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. §913f, then the posted sign is in error and the warning has no lawful authority.

Some enlightenment on the matter would be appreciated at your convenience. A copy of 18 Pa.C.S. §913 is attached.

Awaiting your response, I remain,

Most respectfully yours,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The response I received yesterday is attached below in pdf format. She completely ignored my mention of no sign at the District Court entrance pertaining to storage facilities being available. The GSC is a multi story office building that contains a DC on the first level. The only public entrance to the DC is from outside the building. If you go in the main entrance that she references in her response, there is no access to DC. This is why she mentions exiting the lobby and proceeding around the building to the seperate doors to the DC. Inside the vestibule of the DC, the only sign that exists is the dangerous weapons one.

They are still in violation for not posting a sign in the vestibule of the DC entrance to comply with subsection (d), specifically this bolded section below


Posting of notice.—Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each courthouse or other building containing a court facility and each court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a)(1) with respect to a court facility if the notice was not so posted at each public entrance to the courthouse or other building containing a court facility and at the court facility unless the person had actual notice of the provisions of subsection (a).

How about not having storage facilities at the DC itself and trying to use the ones at the main entrance to show compliance? If you could access the DC once you were in the main lobby of the GSC I think that complies but the fact that there is no way to access the DC once inside the main lobby creates a gray area. I need some help before I respond to her. Can anyone offer some assistance?

Thanks

[P-11 shooter]

Welcome to the forum, my friend.

That's one hell of an entrance you made.

[Jailkeeper]

Welcome home. We've been waiting for you!

I agree, that was one hell of an entrance!

[IV_Warrior]

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the building containing the court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d).

Well, in my opinion, it sounds like they meet the letter of the law. I don't see where it says "from the entrance you need to use" just "Within the building containing the court facility". If it's in the same building, even if you have to leave the building and re-enter from a different entrance, it sounds to me like it's legal. They just need to post the location of the lockers.....

My opinion, and, of course, it's worth what you paid for it.

[GL23]

Well, in my opinion, it sounds like they meet the letter of the law. I don't see where it says "from the entrance you need to use" just "Within the building containing the court facility". If it's in the same building, even if you have to leave the building and re-enter from a different entrance, it sounds to me like it's legal. They just need to post the location of the lockers.....

My opinion, and, of course, it's worth what you paid for it.

Thanks IV. I spoke with Greg (gnbrotz) earlier this evening and he concurred. My reply will be focusing around the storage facilities sign that is not present in the vestibule. I'll post it here once I finalize it and send it.

[shefearsnothing]

Hope you enjoy it here.

[Coop650]

Welcome to the site!

[GL23]

Well, in my opinion, it sounds like they meet the letter of the law. I don't see where it says "from the entrance you need to use" just "Within the building containing the court facility". If it's in the same building, even if you have to leave the building and re-enter from a different entrance, it sounds to me like it's legal. They just need to post the location of the lockers.....

My opinion, and, of course, it's worth what you paid for it.

That’s my feeling too. Having only a "dangerous weapons prohibited" sign in the vestibule of the DC entrance falls short of the statutory requirement that both signs are needed at each court facility. Reply sent to court administrator. I will post it shortly.

[GL23]

Reply sent to Patricia Norwood-Foden. As you can see below, I copied other pertinent persons as well. I will post responses as I receive them.

September 17, 2008

Patricia L. Norwood-Foden
Minor Judiciary Administrator
Chester County Courthouse
Two North High Street, Suite 320
P.O. Box 2748
West Chester, PA 19380-0991


Dear Mrs. Norwood-Foden,

I am in receipt of your correspondence dated September 11, 2008. I appreciate your prompt reply and attention to the issues previously raised. There is one part in my initial letter you may have mistakenly overlooked.

18 Pa.C.S. §913d is very specific as to the locations of the two notices that are required under the provisions of subsections (a) & (e). Subsection (d) states in part that notice “shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each courthouse or other building containing a court facility and each court facility….”

The absence of a posting in the vestibule to District Court 15-2-03 regarding subsection (e), leaves the County in noncompliance with 18 Pa.C.S. §913. When a clerk in Judge Kraut’s office initially contacted me via telephone, I specifically mentioned the absence of a sign regarding storage facilities in the vestibule and kindly informed them a posting was required by law. The response I received was, “that won’t be happening.”

I was shocked by the callous disregard of state law. Due to this response, I began drafting a letter to you when I received your reply to my initial inquiry. My understanding is that Chester County is ultimately responsible for assuring that District Court 15-2-03 is in compliance with 18 Pa.C.S. §913. I have therefore copied the County Commissioners’ Office with all of our correspondence thus far.

Please let me know how Chester County will proceed in bringing District Court 15-2-03 in compliance with state law. A copy of 18 Pa.C.S. §913 is attached.



Sincerely,







Cc: The Honorable William Kraut
Lt. John Freas, Chester County Sheriff’s Dept.
Chester County Commissioners’ Office

[GL23]

Here is a copy of my letter to each of the three County Commissioners

September 19, 2008

Honorable
Chester County Commissioners' Office
2 N. High Street, Suite 512
P.O. Box 2748
West Chester, PA 19380-0991



Dear

Attached please find correspondence between myself, Magisterial District Court 15-2-03, and Mrs. Patricia L. Norwood-Foden. I have copied the Chester County Commissioners due to my belief that your office is ultimately responsible for compliance in the matters discussed herein. I have attached a copy of 18 Pa.C.S. §913.

I thank you and your fellow Commissioners for your attention to this matter, and hopefully assisting the Court Administrator’s Office in formulating a resolution.



Sincerely,