Any HVAC people here?

[Coop650]

So we need a new furnace and duct work. This is a small ranch house (936 sq ft) and it had an old mobile home oil furnace where the duct work was WAY to small and after a recent service call we learned the heat exchanger cracked due to that. So we have been getting estimates and so far the cheapest is $7300. Now that is a heat pump (my wife has severe allergies AND asthma and the furnace sits on the opposite side of our bedroom wall, we don't have a basement), new duct work and a proper return since the old one returned through the door.

I am just wondering does that seem like the going rate for an install? I used to install HVAC in the early 90's and then it was much cheaper. I have been away from it since 94 though.

Thanks.

[adymond]

If you were closer I would tell you to use the guy that just helped me out, but he is over here in Del Co.

[ruggerio]

i am in the mechanical trades and have some exp with hvac. i dont think that price is over the top. do you know the type of euiptment they are using. it is all not created equal. use a reputableestablished co/ guy from your area and you wont be sorry. ask them to give you a free start up service next summer on the a.c because the cooling season is now winding down

[Coop650]

The estimates we've gotten have been for Kenmore & Carrier, Lennox, and ThermoPride. The ThermoPride was the most expensive, the Kenmore the cheapest.

I guess since they aren't out of line we will just have to decide who we want to go with. I am just surprised how much prices have gone up, I guess I should have known since that was 14 years ago, lol.

[jb12string]

I've encoutered several Kenmore water softeners in my line of work (water treatment) and they are pretty much junk. We even had a customer want us to get parts for one, when my Dad told Sears Customer Service that it was 4 years old, their advice was to replace it, so we did, with one of ours

[Tomcat088]

Howdy Coop, my father owns his own heating and air conditioning business; the bad thing is that we're in a rural part of Texas, which could be quite a bit different in prices. I've worked with my father since I was a small boy and been helping him all summer. As others said, the equipment is not all created equally. Just a word of advice, do NOT go with the most expensive units that have the highest efficiency rating. Sure they're more efficient, but most of the time they will never pay for themselves in their life time. We have to work on all kinds of units, on the high efficiency units you get multi-speed fans, variable stage compressors, etc. This is all find and dandy, but when those things break, they're EXPENSIVE, sometimes fan motors being $500 (at COST). You don't even want to know what some of the compressors cost. Sometimes when those things break, they're gonna be in warranty, but in order for some of those units to pay for themselves sometimes they have to last longer than 10 years. Well if you have $500 fan motors, electronic boards, and multi stage compressors going out after your 10 year warranty, the unit will NEVER pay for itself.

Now it's not always smart to go with the cheapest unit either. They're usually built badly, not efficient at all, and not that much cheaper than a middle of the line unit that WILL pay for itself in savings eventually. So I would advise you to go with a middle of the line unit, the parts to get them fixed are always in stock, and much less cheaper. If you just need the comfort of buying the most expensive unit, go for it, but my advise is that it will NOT pay for itself. As I stated, the price does seem a little expensive compared to this area, but may not be for your area. There will be PLENTY of people willing to give you a free quote and look the place over because they love to sell units. As others said, reputable dealers, you cannot say enough about them. My father is known as such, you always get good service from them, they will always be willing to come work on the system that they installed (because it was done right), and they ain't gonna mess you around or tell you some things are broken that aren't. My father gets called in all the time to work on a unit someone had installed by someone else because they were $200 cheaper (or something like that). Then it ends up being a cheaper unit, that wasn't installed properly, etc. My dad's faithful customers always come before the "clean up's" that he has to do (because they aways call him when they need something). Sometimes if an HVAC man has to come clean up someone else's mess that they had a bid on, they're labor is more expensive to kind of "teach you a lesson"; that you should have gotten it done right the first time, lol. Either way, if it's only $200 to go with a much more reputable person, trust me, do it.

Oh and a word about your new system, do NOT get a unit that uses R-22 Refrigerant. That's what everybody used to use, and what everybody is usually comfortable with, but it's being completely phased out. The prices of freon will only go higher (just like R-12 did), and will eventually be obsolete, and the unit will have to be replaced with something else because you won't be able to get R22 anymore. Look at getting a R410a unit installed. Someone might give you a higher price quote on them because they're the "new refrigerant"; don't fall for it. Prices on R410a units are actually cheaper than R22 units right now, and my father is advising everybody to get an R410a unit. These units are a more enviromentally friendly refrigerant, Carrier has a trademark name of "Puron" for it (same thing). Many of these units are also made better quality than the same priced R22 units, they have compressor jackets, larger coils (better heating and cooling) and run quieter.

Everybody has different units that they prefer, it's just like car brands. I've seen just about every brand fail, and I've come across just about every brand of unit that is over 25 years old. Around this area, Kenmore and thermopride are pretty much unheard of; we do see ALOT of Carriers, Tranes, some Lennox and quite a few Comfort Makers. I personally have never thought that Tranes were designed that well, servicing them is always a pain in the butt, an they sometimes just put things in places here it's obvious that they're gonna break it has worse conditions (hotter, wetter, etc). Lennox are designed better, but still not as good as they could be. Carriers are good units that were designed very well, but in the past 5 years they've gotten to be WAY over priced. My father and I also started seeing quality control that wasn't as good as it used to be, and they just started going a bit cheap on some things. At that point my father decided that Carriers weren't the best bang for the buck, and started looking at some Comfort Makers. Comfort makers, bryant and Carrier are the same company; Bryant got bought out by Comfort maker (which was an upgrade for them) and I believe Carrier bought out Comfort Maker. Either way, my father has had very good luck with the Comfort Maker system, they don't break very often, they always are willing to work with you (even if you're outside of warranty if it's a manufacturing defect) etc. They're great units, and if you can find someone to price one for ya, check them out just for the heck of it. Really, it doesn't matter what system you go with, if you have one brand that's been good for you and that someone is willingto always service, that's what is best. If someone is used to working on a unit, they know the problems that are most common with that design, easily get parts, and the supply house/manufacturer will be familiar with them and sometimes willing to go a little "beyond" to help you out. Best of luck and hope that helps a little.

[Coop650]

Wow, thanks for all that info! I do know these were all R410a. I guess we have some decisions to make. Money is tight (isn't it always) so this is making it harder. We have to take the money out of my wife's 401k because I am a full time student after back surgery last year and only work part time. But it gets way too cold here not to have heat. I am leary of buying a used unit because it seems like the only ones you see for sale are 10-15+ years old.

[chugger95]

I moved on to commercial HVAC about 2 years ago, back then I worked about 5 or 6 summers installing residential units. I always thought we were pretty expensive where I worked ARS (division of ServiceMaster) and that is about where we were at 2 years ago. Depending on the equipment and how hard the job was going to be, I saw anywhere from 5-10,000 dollars per new install. But that was normally a furnace, condensing unit, a-coil, new lineset, maybe a high efficiency filter, humidifier, and just enough ductwork to hook it back up to the main trunk. Are they planning on replacing alot of ductwork, if so that's not a bad price. A heat pump would normally be a little bit cheaper due to the indoor unit being a little less expensive than a gas furnace, but not too much cheaper.

Definately go with 410A. I haven't paid attention lately but I remember originally R22 was supposed to be phased out of production by somewhere around 2030 and then it kept moving forward and forward. Last I heard it was somewhere around 2010. So when you get a leak 10 years down the road or lose a compressor it'll cost you more for the refrigerant than it will to put a new outdoor unit in and they'll have to rip all the old shit out because 22 and 410A use different oils that don't mix well.

As far as brands go, I did all new installs so I didn't get to see what brands break more often. I did install mostly Trane and Carrier. I've always been a fan of Carrier, and Trane kinda grew on me. We also installed a Goodman here and there and I think they've come along quite a bit in the quality department.

One last thing is to definately use a reputable professional installer. There are a lot of things that can be done while installing that will kill the life of your system. There are also a lot of things that are done during the install that just totally look like shit. I hate it when I am walking through someone's basement of this nice new house and look at the furnace and see wires just hanging here and there with duct tape and all loose and stuff. Some people will say oh it's just a furnace I'm not looking at it all the time. Well if they don't care what it looks like where you can see it, imagine what it looks like under the insulation where they kinked pipe, put big holes in ductwork, and messed up a bunch of other shit that will ruin it. /Rant

[bloomautomatic]

If they have to fab new ductwork and retrofit it, I suppose that's in the ballpark. Could be a lot of labor.

I'm in HVAC, but we manufacturer the duct connectors and accesories - www.ductmate.com.

Vince