Private handgun sale to LE

[esh21167]

Listed a handgun here and on Armslist. Potential buyer via Armslist says he is LE and I just need to fill out a form that he submits to his precinct and they complete the transfer. And wants to get the gun at the time I fill out the form today, a Sunday. I did not know there was any such allowance for LE purchase from a private individual. I don't feel good about his proposed process. Sounds pretty iffy, and how do I know he's really an LEO anyway?

[olderguy]

Offer to meet him at the police station.

[Gun]

If this LEO is buying a gun from you, tell him to meet you at an FFL. This is a FFL transfer of a handgun between two non-licensed individuals.

[louie]

ALL handgun transfers through an FFL.
Period.
This protects YOU.
Period.


'nuff said.


louie, out!

[tl_3237]

In not clear that a private sale to a LEO is exempt from a formal transfer by an FFL/sheriff.

Consider that sales in Pa are primarily controlled under 18 Pa CS 6111.

It is true that there is a specific exemption with respect LEO purchased provided in:

(j) Exemption.--
(1) The provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to:

(i) sales between Federal firearms licensees; or
(ii) the purchase of firearms by a chief law enforcement officer or his designee, for the official use of law enforcement officers.

(2) For the purposes of this subsection, the term "chief law enforcement officer" shall include the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, the chief or head of a police department, a county sheriff or any equivalent law enforcement official.

A valid purchase by a CLEO (not an individual office unless he is a 'designee') is exempt from subsections (a) [time and manner of delivery] and subsection (b) [sales procedure by an FFL].

Private sales are governed by subsection (c) and it specifically requires that an FFL/sheriff do the transfer:

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

IMO that prohibits you from directly selling a handgun to an LEO.

[esh21167]

If this LEO is buying a gun from you, tell him to meet you at an FFL. This is a FFL transfer of a handgun between two non-licensed individuals.

That was my understanding. Perusing ATF guidelines for FFL's seems to say 4473 is not required when selling to an LE, but documentation of LE status, showing non-conviction of offenses, and record of sale is required. I see nothing about a non-licensed person selling to an LE without an FFL. Perhaps a sting operation?

Further, why would an LE buy a Gen 3 Glock 30 for $550? He could get a new one cheaper, right?

[knight0334]

Technically an LEO is exempt paragraph (a) and (b), but not paragraph (c) of the transfer regulation, but I personally would make him do a full proper transfer since we have to do it. ...ya never know what kind of person he is. Your gun could end up as a nice "drop" at a scene, or he could use it improperly and you will not be afforded the liability protections that you would have by doing a proper transfer.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms
(f) Application of section.--
(3) The provisions contained in subsection (a) shall not apply to any law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm or any person who possesses a valid license to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

[esh21167]

Him: Im in XXXXX..... as far as transfer goes w me being LE as long as u have a permit n fill out a transfer form I hand it in to my precinct and they do transfer.... if ur around today I could meet u half way in XXXX and grab it from u..... lmk im around all day today

(Excellent grammar and communication skills noted)

I believe my response will simply be: That is not going to happen. If you are still interested, we can make arrangements to meet at an FFL in XXX.

[Statkowski]

The U.S. Government may say that it doesn't require an FFL, but state law does.

[esh21167]

And not to out him by listing his name, but it's one letter away from a pretty well known action movie actor. Coincidence?