Question about transfers

[spacemanvic]

Just went to visit family in the People Republic of NJ. Cousin there is getting out of shooting. He'd like to give me a pistol and a rifle. How would we go about doing it? Google-fu search from forums (nothing solid) basically say that the transfer has to go through one FFL dealer to another. What does something like this cost and how long does the process take?

[knight0334]

The handgun must be transferred at a FFL in your home state. The rifle can be transferred at a FFL in either party's state.

There is no law requiring the gun to be shipped FFL-to-FFL. Your cousin can ship/deliver them directly to a FFL in PA to complete the transfer.

Shipping costs can vary. Expect to pay next-day shipping. Then expect to pay $20-$50 per gun for the transfer work at your FFL.

[Xringshooter]

To help expedite the process of getting the handgun, YOU should look around and find a local FFL that will accept a shipment from a non-FFL. There are FFL's out there that will not accept any shipment from a non-FFL so you may have to ask around. Your cousin can then hand carry the gun if we doesn't want to ship it (and the rifle also if he wants) to the FFL in PA who will do the transfer and the FFL will handle it from there. He will enter it into his books and then YOU will fill out all the required paperwork and undergo the background check. If all is well, you will pay the FFL for his efforts and walk out with your new handgun.

The process at the FFL in PA (for the handgun or the handgun and rifle) only takes the time required to fill out the paperwork, do the background check and pay the FFL. My estimate, as long as the background check goes okay (typically takes under 5 minutes), is about 1/2 hour max (give or take how busy the FFL is at the time). If your cousin ships the handgun then add several days for the gun to get to the FFL and for the FFL to contact you to come in.

[tl_3237]

To help expedite the process of getting the handgun, YOU should look around and find a local FFL that will accept a shipment from a non-FFL. There are FFL's out there that will not accept any shipment from a non-FFL so you may have to ask around. Your cousin can then hand carry the gun if we doesn't want to ship it (and the rifle also if he wants) to the FFL in PA who will do the transfer and the FFL will handle it from there. He will enter it into his books and then YOU will fill out all the required paperwork and undergo the background check. If all is well, you will pay the FFL for his efforts and walk out with your new handgun.

The process at the FFL in PA (for the handgun or the handgun and rifle) only takes the time required to fill out the paperwork, do the background check and pay the FFL. My estimate, as long as the background check goes okay (typically takes under 5 minutes), is about 1/2 hour max (give or take how busy the FFL is at the time). If your cousin ships the handgun then add several days for the gun to get to the FFL and for the FFL to contact you to come in.

If hand-carry from NJ is elected, be VERY CAUTIOUS. I'm unaware of any NJ exemption to either the handgun possession proscription without an NJCCW or rifle possession proscription without an NJFID for such a transport while in NJ. Whether FOPA protection would extend to such a trip is also a very gray area.

If a personal NJ to PA transport is attempted I would strongly urge that the "seller/donor" arrange a specific time with the FFL in advance and travel directly from his NJ residence to the FFL without unnecessary deviations. This wouldn't necessarily legitimize the transport but it could be used to show no unlawful intent if something untoward were to occur while in NJ.

[gnbrotz]

The rifle can be transferred at a FFL in either party's state.

A while back, someone (I think it was tl_3237) suggested to me that for long guns, it doesn't even have to be in either party's home state. If they were several states away, they could meet in some other state (where neither of them actually reside), and lawfully complete the required transfer.

Do you know of anything that suggests the above wouldn't pass the muster of federal law?

[Xringshooter]

Here's some stuff that might be pertinent:


The sale of a rifle between two people that reside in different states has to go through a FFL. It can be the sellers FFL in the sellers state or the buyers FFL in the buyers state, or I suppose it could be done in this way:
As a FFL I would be leery of two people coming to me (say one from MD and one from OH) and asking me to transfer a rifle. Although in the bare bones of it, any person from any state can sell me (a FFL) a rifle and in turn any person from any state can buy a rifle from me (a FFL) (as long as they are not prohibited). The contiguous states only law has been dropped. So I suppose to cover my butt it would be best if I have paperwork that showed that I bought the gun from person A (from MD) and then sold it to person B (from OH) (with the appropriate price mark up ). Doing that, I have met the letter of the law and not much could be said. In the above case I would want to have a pretty good explanation as to why I should do this transaction. One example is they both belong to the same hunting camp in PA and the one liked the rifle and persuaded the other to sell it to him.

From the BATFE:
May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State?

Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]

To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

...A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State...
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]



Here are some more things from the BATFE:

What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are “same-State” residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer’s State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping.


May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]


From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

[knight0334]

A while back, someone (I think it was tl_3237) suggested to me that for long guns, it doesn't even have to be in either party's home state. If they were several states away, they could meet in some other state (where neither of them actually reside), and lawfully complete the required transfer.

Do you know of anything that suggests the above wouldn't pass the muster of federal law?

Long guns can be transferred in any state, not just the buyer's or seller's. Just as long as it is at a FFL and the rifle is legal in the buyer's state.