First build - many questions

[Sgt.K]

OK, fellow POOFers, here goes – I have several questions relating to a common theme: I just started down the long road to my first build by picking up an 80% AR lower at the Oaks gun show. I have legal, technical, and opinion-y questions, so I figured I’d try ‘em all in one place to get maximum response. (Of course, 90+% of the responses focused on the legal, so I'm splitting the post to give those questions a shot.) The build schedule will be limited by parts acquisition, which will be limited by finances, so will be purchased piece by piece (or group) as I choose which components I want, and where and/or from whom I wish to by them.

This is gonna be a “ghost gun” that I may want to try as a pistol and/or rifle. If I build as a pistol first, then as long as I never attach a rifle stock/buffer and pistol upper at the same time I should still be legal to switch back and forth at will. Now the grey area question: since it was never recorded anywhere as a rifle or pistol (nor will it be ), do I run afoul of the ATF if I build a rifle first then convert to pistol? For that matter, what if I build one rifle and one pistol out of matching (unserialized) lowers then switch them? Whether legal or not, how the #$%^ would anyone know?

(I moved the technical questions to another post. http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=301229 )

Thanks.

[Gun]

This is gonna be a “ghost gun” that I may want to try as a pistol and/or rifle. If I build as a pistol first, then as long as I never attach a rifle stock/buffer and pistol upper at the same time I should still be legal to switch back and forth at will. Now the grey area question: since it was never recorded anywhere as a rifle or pistol (nor will it be ), do I run afoul of the ATF if I build a rifle first then convert to pistol? For that matter, what if I build one rifle and one pistol out of matching (unserialized) lowers then switch them? Whether legal or not, how the #$%^ would anyone know? Because you just raised the issue and the ATF has just read this.


I will by a castle nut wrench, because this will likely become a test mule of a gun, and there’s no telling how many times I may need one. Other than the castle nut wrench, are there any AR-specific tools anyone would consider necessary?

Thanks.

If you use two 80% lowers, and assemble a rifle and a pistol, why would you need to swap the uppers along with the recoil tube?

Buy the pistol upper first along with the pistol buffer and save the receipt. Having this first will show intent of assembling a pistol first. YMMV.



Castle nut wrench is a good idea, even if used occasionally.

[knight0334]

OK, fellow POOFers, here goes – I have several questions relating to a common theme: I just started down the long road to my first build by picking up an 80% AR lower at the Oaks gun show. I have legal, technical, and opinion-y questions, so I figured I’d try ‘em all in one place to get maximum response. The build schedule will be limited by parts acquisition, which will be limited by finances, so will be purchased piece by piece (or group) as I choose which components I want, and where and/or from whom I wish to by them.

This is gonna be a “ghost gun” that I may want to try as a pistol and/or rifle. If I build as a pistol first, then as long as I never attach a rifle stock/buffer and pistol upper at the same time I should still be legal to switch back and forth at will. Now the grey area question: since it was never recorded anywhere as a rifle or pistol (nor will it be ), do I run afoul of the ATF if I build a rifle first then convert to pistol? For that matter, what if I build one rifle and one pistol out of matching (unserialized) lowers then switch them? Whether legal or not, how the #$%^ would anyone know?

I haven’t bought the jig yet, though what research I managed online last night before the Z-monster struck has me leaning towards the Universal 80% AR-15 Easy Jig from 80% Arms. Anyone with any 80% lower builds want to chime in, yay or nay, go for it.

The lower is raw aluminum. I will *probably* want to finish it, possibly something non-standard. I know I can Duracoat or anodize at home, maybe even high-temp paint. Besides any thoughts on finishing methods (bring ‘em on) what do you think about finishing *before* machining? I figure it would eliminate having to re-drill holes to clean them out after coating, and I might like the contrast between the outer finish and the machined internals.

Anyone anodize their own lower? I can’t find an answer to this one online – can the anodizing process change dimensions of the lower enough to affect the fit of the buffer tube threads?

For anyone who has marked a lower (SAFE-FIRE marks, serializing, ATF-requirements for NFA items), what methods do you prefer? Do you feel any marks are necessary on an AR lower?

I am not building this to be a competition rifle, though who knows what the future may bring, so I don’t plan on a $200 trigger pack or the like. Basic components to start until I am no longer the performance limiter. I spent 17 years shooting M-16 with iron sights, so I can be happy without optics at first also. Since I don’t expect to be smashing in any doors (or faces) with the stock, something lightweight is fine, adjustable even better. What do I want to look for in components and parts kits, and why?

I will by a castle nut wrench, because this will likely become a test mule of a gun, and there’s no telling how many times I may need one. Other than the castle nut wrench, are there any AR-specific tools anyone would consider necessary?

Thanks.

Yes, you would run afoul. You MUST assemble the gun as a handgun first for you to be able to convert back and forth. The first build state is what the gun is determined to be from there on out for Title I firearms.

If you build it as a handgun first, you can convert it to a long gun, and back to a handgun. ...so long as there is no barrel less than 16" on the gun whenever the buttstuck is attached. (always remove upper prior to changing buttstock to pistol buffer)


If you assemble it as a rifle in its first build state - it is a rifle forever, unless you legally NFA the gun.

[greenjohn88]

As of ATF 2011-4 a pistol can be temporarily remanufactured into a rifle. Once it is a rifle on paper, it is a rifle forever. If transferred in rifle condition, such as to bypass 18 PA CS 6111, it is a rifle forever. If you SBR your AR pistol, it cannot be a pistol again. You can, however, simply buy (or build) another pistol lower.

Every Title II firearm must have a serial number. If you want to SBR an 80% lower, you must issue it a serial number.

[Splittiebus66]

As for the markings the Fiber Laser engraving works awesome. It abates the metal so it looks good and is legal for NFA specs if necessary. It would work really nice if you want a custom "rollmark" or the Fire/safe markings etc. I used Laserworx in Pottstown a few years ago and they did an awesome job for my SBR.

[Sgt.K]

As of ATF 2011-4 a pistol can be temporarily remanufactured into a rifle. Once it is a rifle on paper, it is a rifle forever. If transferred in rifle condition, such as to bypass 18 PA CS 6111, it is a rifle forever. If you SBR your AR pistol, it cannot be a pistol again. You can, however, simply buy (or build) another pistol lower.

This is the question I am asking, I guess. How does it become a rifle "on paper". I buy an unserialized 80% lower, I build it in the configuration of my choosing, and I keep it for life. It is never transferred, so it is never recorded as a rifle, never recorded as a pistol, never recorded - full stop.

Every Title II firearm must have a serial number. If you want to SBR an 80% lower, you must issue it a serial number.

Forgive my ignorance, what is covered under Title II? I have never ventured into NFA. I also never suggested I wanted to SBR this build...

[Sgt.K]

If you use two 80% lowers, and assemble a rifle and a pistol, why would you need to swap the uppers along with the recoil tube?

Intellectual exercise only. And, for those agencies (on whose list(s) I surely already reside) who are listening, that really is all it was Honest.

Buy the pistol upper first along with the pistol buffer and save the receipt. Having this first will show intent of assembling a pistol first. YMMV.

I understand this perfectly, for a virgin serialized lower, and I understand why you're saying it. I guess I'm just questioning what is the point? No, I don't expect a reasonable, intelligent answer, as I doubt there is one...

Castle nut wrench is a good idea, even if used occasionally.

I kinda thought so.

[Sgt.K]

Yes, you would run afoul. You MUST assemble the gun as a handgun first for you to be able to convert back and forth. The first build state is what the gun is determined to be from there on out for Title I firearms.

If you build it as a handgun first, you can convert it to a long gun, and back to a handgun. ...so long as there is no barrel less than 16" on the gun whenever the buttstuck is attached. (always remove upper prior to changing buttstock to pistol buffer)


If you assemble it as a rifle in its first build state - it is a rifle forever, unless you legally NFA the gun.

Again, what is the point? I know it's the law, but *why* is it the law. (Still not expecting an answer.)

Wouldn't it be a much better world if .gov worked to punish people who *did harm* with guns, instead of those who just *own* them? Cue unicorns and rainbows...

[knight0334]

Again, what is the point? I know it's the law, but *why* is it the law. (Still not expecting an answer.)

Wouldn't it be a much better world if .gov worked to punish people who *did harm* with guns, instead of those who just *own* them? Cue unicorns and rainbows...

It has been the law since 1934.

[Sgt.K]

It has been the law since 1934.

Again, I am not challenging *that* it is law, I just cant see any truly valid reason *why* it is law.

I guess I'm just waxing philosophical as I approach the dreaded half-century mark (only two more calendar pages - aaaaAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!). That and I get seriously cranky when a weather front like this one blows thru - there just ain't enough pain relief right now...