Another National Park Question

[PennsyPlinker]

Okay. I have searched, read, and researched until my eyes are going blurry. A lot of links in threads are dead or go to cryptic code that means nothing in real English. I am going to be in the Grand Canyon National Park in Arizona in the near future for a couple of days. I am planning on staying in a hotel on park property. So here is my question.

Where can I go to find the law on carrying while in this hotel?

Arizona honors my Pa license, so it is a given that I will be carrying while I am out there. The GC is a side trip for me while I am on business out there. What I need to know is do I need to change my reservations for that part of the trip?

[rwilson452]

If the hotel is a federal facility you can't carry there. I suspect it is. Wouldn't hurt to call the hotel most have 800 numbers

[gnbrotz]

I saw an actual NPS document clarifying the 'federal facility' issue a bit....still looking for it. In the mean time, here's some info that probably won't do a thing to help answer your question:

http://www.jacksonholenews.com/article.php?art_id=4132

Not only that, but the feds have their own rules and regulations. One prohibits guns in federal buildings or facilities, but just what constitutes a federal facility isn’t clear.

“A visitor center is an easy one,” Nash said. “Our administration building is another easy one. It’s not clear to us at this point ... [if] every structure would be classified as a federal facility even though we own it.”

The uncertainty extends to concessionaires too. Is a building still a federal facility if it is run by a private company?

Correspondence from regional National Park Service officials obtained by the Jackson Hole News&Guide indicates that the confusion goes all the way to Interior Department officials in Washington, D.C.

In a letter to Park Service employees, Intermountain Regional Office official Kathy Clark wrote that lawyers from both the Department of Justice and the Department of Interior are “continuing to consult on the definition for ‘federal facility,’” according to a Jan. 8 e-mail.

“There have been questions brought forward as to just how things like tour boats and amphitheaters fit into the equation.” the e-mail said. “DOI is still developing guidance on the firearms rule.”

[gnbrotz]

I'd hesitate a little about calling the lodge directly. Even if they are a private entity, they might wish to ban firearms on the property (even if possession is legal), and an inquiry might cause a 'policy' issue even in the absence of a 'legal' issue.

Pennsy, are you staying at one of these establishments?

El Tovar
Bright Angel
Kachina Lodge
Thunderbird Lodge
Maswik Lodge
Yavapai Lodge
Phantom Ranch
Trailer Village

[TaePo]

Once you book a room, you possibly could carry as the leased space is your home in theory.

They could limit you in common areas like apartment buildings etc., however.

IANAL and not sure if the ideas of Pa. law are similar in other states but throwing it out there as food for thought.

For example, D.C. probably did not have any such provision as their own citizens needed a license to even possess a firearm. But firearm friendly states just might have an allowance.

ETA = I understand as well this could be classified Federal but you would still be leasing the space as your domocile which could make a difference. Plus this is not conducting 'Federal Governmental Business' other than providing leased living spaces so I would not think it would be classified as a facility (no gov't purpose per se) I am clearly interested if anyone can turn up any ruling, though.

[gnbrotz]

Park Law Enforcement personnel just told me that it is their understanding that things like the privately-owned or leased lodging/concessions are not covered under the new permissions. She was very friendly, and surprised that I would bother to inquire before "coming there." She never once suggested it would be easier to just leave the gun at home.

She recognized the ambiguity as it concerns which buildings are "federal facilities", and said she would seek confirmation/clarification from someone else, and send me an e-mail in a day or two to update me. She also noted that AZ state law prohibits carry in establishments that serve alcohol, so even if the hotel weren't covered under NPS rules, places like the hotel bar would be prohibited by AZ state law. I didn't do further investigation, and I don't know your route, but obviously other state laws will apply both in and out of the park.

[TonyF]

Okay. I have searched, read, and researched until my eyes are going blurry. A lot of links in threads are dead or go to cryptic code that means nothing in real English. I am going to be in the Grand Canyon National Park in Arizona in the near future for a couple of days. I am planning on staying in a hotel on park property. So here is my question.

Where can I go to find the law on carrying while in this hotel?

Arizona honors my Pa license, so it is a given that I will be carrying while I am out there. The GC is a side trip for me while I am on business out there. What I need to know is do I need to change my reservations for that part of the trip?

Here's another "twist".

I may be wrong but IIRC, the GCNP is smack dab in the middle of an Indian Reservation and the Indian Tribal Gov't has jurisdiction and authority WRT firearms laws.

Last time I was in AZ (at Gunsite) I was thinking of taking a drive up there (had an AZ non resident permit) and was told both CC and OC were prohibited in GCNP because it was on a Reservation.

[tl_3237]

18 USC 930(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

We at Xanterra South Rim, L.L.C. are your direct in-park source on the South Rim for National Park reservations at Grand Canyon. We are the primary in-park concessioners for Grand Canyon, and proud stewards of the park and this truly extraordinary American experience. link

I believe the lodgings are leased by private companies. Such facilities would appear to be excluded from the 930 proscription due to the lack of Federal employees' regular duty station.

Whether they can exclude as a lessor like private property owner, I don't know, but I was there last year and noted no signage whatsoever regarding weapon carry.

IANAL

[mikey]

I should have asked when I was there in 2006.

[tl_3237]

Here's another "twist".

I may be wrong but IIRC, the GCNP is smack dab in the middle of an Indian Reservation and the Indian Tribal Gov't has jurisdiction and authority WRT firearms laws.

Last time I was in AZ (at Gunsite) I was thinking of taking a drive up there (had an AZ non resident permit) and was told both CC and OC were prohibited in GCNP because it was on a Reservation.

AS I understand it the NP is under DOI jurisdiction, not tribal.

There are major portions of grand canyon outside the park and they are tribal lands. We took copter and landed in grand canyon but it was on rented land from tribe since no landings allowed in park. I believe that there are also no flights allowed over park canyon.