Tragic Crimes and Events - God, Free-will, and "Evil"

[-JD-]

Since the debate on the Religious implications of the shootings at the Pittsburgh LA Fitness seemed to be taking over the thread (http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/6798...tml#post845675), I thought that a dedicated thread may be appropriate.

So, to continue ... what do you think:

There is no God?
God does not monitor/interfere with specific event in the world?
These events are God's specific plan even if we don't understand why?

[Guns4Fun]

God gave us free will - what we choose to do with it is up to us.


ETA - this thread will probably go down in flames - just sayin

[Atomic Dog]

IBTL





God does not exist, therefore we are in control of our destiny. Because we are not held to external "morals" it is even more imperative that we try as much as possible not to harm our fellow humans. Because society breaks down not when a deity is "taken away", but when people begin to harm each other.

[tommy610]

To understand the coexistence of free will and predestination using our own limited mind is futile. That's why it's called faith.

There is evil in the world because of free will. Man is sinful. If we were not sinful, there would be no sickness, evil, or even physical death. This was a perfect world before Adam and Eve sinned. You may ask "Why did God allow us to do this to ourselves?". The reason is, He had to give us free will, because He wanted us to love Him. Someone without free will cannot love someone else. They could be created to act like they love, but it would never be love.

My belief in Jesus Christ as my Savior is all I need, as I observe all this going on around me, and even sometimes happening to me. Things of this world don't matter. Do I fail to live by that faith sometimes? Yes. Does He want me to live a good life? Yes. There are countless directives in the bible concerning how we live on the earth. But every single one of those has to do with affecting the eternity of either ourselves or others - specifically whether they spend eternity in paradise. It's a strange thing... believing in Christ's death and resurrection alone for the payment for your sin is ALL you can do. As soon as you add something like
living a good life" to it, you've nullified that faith, and it's worthless to you.

[1861]

Well , this will be another God hating thread I will have to avoid .

[-JD-]

Well , this will be another God hating thread I will have to avoid .

I hope not.

There was a debate going on in the LA Fitness shooting thread where the identified shooter's religious outlook, coupled with God/Free-will issues were raised. It was devolving into spirited exchange on doctrine and derivation, and I suggested that THAT thread might not be the best for that branch of exploration as it was all getting muddled. Several of those debating replied that it was a valid point of discussion, and I agree, hence this thread and NOT, I thought, with a derogatory title.

Regardless of If and Which God(s)/Religion/Philosophy any of us believe, I do think that everyone's beliefs have an effect on their thoughts and actions. Likewise those of the perpetrator of that incident even if 99.999999% agree that they were horrible misapplications of the religions principals. If nothing else we learn from analyzing that failure of reasoning/application.

Oh well. The road road paved with good intentions ...

[larrymeyer]

IBTL

God does not exist, therefore we are in control of our destiny. Because we are not held to external "morals" it is even more imperative that we try as much as possible not to harm our fellow humans. Because society breaks down not when a deity is "taken away", but when people begin to harm each other.

If you don't believe in a GOD or punishment after death. What keeps you from robbing banks, Raping woman and killing people. There is nothing the government or laws of man can do to me. Give me three hots and a cot for life that would take care of my needs. Put you to death so what ! You'd just cease to exist no biggie. What would you miss another dummy TV show.

Just saying

[Philbert]

If you don't believe in a GOD or punishment after death. What keeps you from robbing banks, Raping woman and killing people. There is nothing the government or laws of man can do to me. Give me three hots and a cot for life that would take care of my needs. Put you to death so what ! You'd just cease to exist no biggie. What would you miss another dummy TV show.

Just saying

You're making unjustified assumptions here.

1. People cannot be deterred by physical punishment. This might be true of a few people but most don't like jail and like the idea of execution even less.

2. That nobody would choose to do good over evil unless they feared being tortured for all eternity by a vengeful God, who might forgive you or not based on a set of rules that nobody can quite figure out. Again, this might be true of some people but I'd venture that most believers don't think to themselves "gee, I'd really like to rape that woman over there, but that killjoy God won't allow it, so I'd best not". And if believers can do good on principle then so can non-believers.

[Philbert]

OP, do you want to discuss evil as in everything bad that happens in the universe, or evil as in evil actions consciously chosen by humans?

[jcabin]

I think alot of people don't commit crimes simply because theyre afraid someone will find out.