PA chp law.

**neinLG** · February 12th, 2008, 07:22 PM

Ok Im a Virginian. We now have reciprocity with PA. I travel a lot to PA and I still haven't found a comprehensive resource to tell me a little bit about PA law. I intend to go to a sheriffs office and speak with them when I have a chance but I still would like to read and hear from you all.

Besides the typical places that are off limits to chp holders like federal property and schools. Where does PA law lie with places that sell alcohol to not be consumed versus places that sell alcohol to be consumed? Non-Consumption business are legal for me to carry into in Virginia. Im assuming that any business that posts limitation of no guns on their premises are exempt from chp holders. What are the ins and outs. VCDL sends me a card annually with additions and subtractions to the off limits places. Does PAFOA do this if your a member? I have read their chp section on reciprocity and recognition but I haven't seen much telling me this info. So what ever help you all can offer would much appreciated until I can get into a sheriffs dept. Thanks

neinLG

**Captain Tuttle** · February 12th, 2008, 07:26 PM

Wait, what, huh?

**gnbrotz** · February 12th, 2008, 07:28 PM

No limits at all on establishments serving or selling alcohol.

Signs have no legal weight whatsoever, but if asked to leave any premises, you must do so or risk arrest for trespass.

Also, check out this thread for a handy flyer you can print out. It focuses on open carry, but the limitations/prohibited places/reciprocity info apply to both OC and CC.

**knight0334** · February 12th, 2008, 08:09 PM

With exception to only a handful or so of PA Sheriff's - most know jack shit about PA's gun laws. ...you would be wasting your time and getting misinformation.

The link that gnbrotz posted and the following link will give you the info that you need.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...nsylvania.html

**toml** · February 12th, 2008, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Signs have no legal weight whatsoever, but if asked to leave any premises, you must do so or risk arrest for trespass.

Just curious - what's the basis for "signs have no legal weight"? I see it stated here often, but so far I've found no explanation for it. Is it a matter that the owner can't restrict legal carry, but would instead have to simply tell you to leave because that's his right in any case, gun or no?

**gnbrotz** · February 12th, 2008, 08:29 PM

There is no law that I can cite, for one simple reason: Laws do not make things legal, they make things illegal.

Some states have laws that state that if an establishment is posted, that sign has the force of law and must be obeyed. Often, these same laws establish minimum requirements that must be met for the sign, such as the size of the lettering or a standard logo being used, etc.

PA has no such law establishing minimum guidelines for such posting and/or giving them the force of law, thus they have no power behind them.

Any owner or agent of a business can ask you to leave. Whether it's the fact that you're carrying a firearm or they simply don't like your purple hair.....it doesn't matter. As long as they don't violate established discrimination guidelines, they can ask you to leave for any reason....or no reason, and you must comply or face trespass charges.

**God's Country** · February 12th, 2008, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by toml

Just curious - what's the basis for "signs have no legal weight"? I see it stated here often, but so far I've found no explanation for it. Is it a matter that the owner can't restrict legal carry, but would instead have to simply tell you to leave because that's his right in any case, gun or no?

IANAL, but my understanding is that Pa gun laws have not given business' that are open to the public the option to post against carrying a legal firearm (as some states do) therefore demanding that I cannot do so by means of posting a sign carries no legal weight. Some establishments may post a sign against carrying, but the reality is that they can on ask you to leave, and you must then oblige.

Have no fear others will chime in an correct where I have strayed.

**God's Country** · February 12th, 2008, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by neinLG

Ok Im a Virginian. We now have reciprocity with PA. I travel a lot to PA and I still haven't found a comprehensive resource to tell me a little bit about PA law. I intend to go to a sheriffs office and speak with them when I have a chance but I still would like to read and hear from you all.

Besides the typical places that are off limits to chp holders like federal property and schools. Where does PA law lie with places that sell alcohol to not be consumed versus places that sell alcohol to be consumed? Non-Consumption business are legal for me to carry into in Virginia. Im assuming that any business that posts limitation of no guns on their premises are exempt from chp holders. What are the ins and outs. VCDL sends me a card annually with additions and subtractions to the off limits places. Does PAFOA do this if your a member? I have read their chp section on reciprocity and recognition but I haven't seen much telling me this info. So what ever help you all can offer would much appreciated until I can get into a sheriffs dept. Thanks

neinLG

Read this it's a short list

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...nsylvania.html

Alcohol no issue. Exemption cards? Now that's funny. Makes me glad I live in Pa.
Call sheriff Wollyung in Chambersburg. I hear he's on the ball

God geeze don't talk to a sheriff unless you want to hear a bunch of wive's tales and half truths.
Seriously though if you stay out of schools,post offices, and court houses, you prettty much have your bases covered.

**knight0334** · February 12th, 2008, 08:53 PM

As stated in the above posts about signs..

In some states, a "No Guns" type sign posted on private property creates an legally off-limits place with criminal violation. In PA, those signs mean nothing other than to warn the gun carrier that they dont want guns there - there is no legal penalty. If the property owner sees that you are carrying - they could ask you to leave, failure to do so could result in trespass violations that could escalate from summary to felony charges if you dont leave. Being there with a gun wouldn't be an infraction, but being there after they ask you to leave would be.

Its best to keep it the iron covered in those places that feel we should be disarmed for their misguided sense of safety.

**imperialism2024** · February 12th, 2008, 09:45 PM

As stated, a very short list of places where one cannot carry, and only courthouses are banned explicitly by PA law. The rest are Federal law or regulations.

As for carrying in K-12 schools, here is the relevant law:

"§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.

(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose."
My emphasis added, and referenced at http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA912.html

So, make your own decision on whether or not it is legal.