Last minute - Snubby class in Hellertown 4/12 & 13

[LastManOut]

This is a last minute class announcement. I'm posting it here because I have been to this class twice, and will likely "pop-in" this weekend as well. I recommend it highly if you carry a snubby, especially if you've only been to an auto-loader class and carry (plan to carry) a 2" revolver primary or BUG.

Dave

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Michael de Bethencourt is the chief trainer for Northeastern Tactical Schools, specializing in courses on snub revolver, weapon disarming and retention, and folding knife skills, for both law enforcement officers and legally armed civilians.

Mr. de Bethencourt is a 30 year student of the martial arts and a 20 year student of police defense tactics. He is a nationally recognized defensive revolver, and weapon disarming and improvised weapons trainer, and an internationally recognized tactical folding knife instructor-trainer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As profiled in Combat Handguns, Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement and S.W.A.T. magazine. Northeastern Tactical Schools' Essentials of the Defensive Snub Revolver introduces you to the essential foundation skills with the short-barreled self-defense revolver.

Class includes:

* Snub nomenclature
* Daily snub function check skills
* The snub’s advantages and limitations
* Best concealment holsters for the snub
* Best stocks for the defensive snub
* Optimum snub ammunition
* One- and two-hand grip fundamentals
* Trigger contact and control
* Alternative shooting stances
* Four stage speed drawing skills
* Flash sight-picture drills
* Stressfire sight-picture drills
* Silhouette sight-picture drills
* Speed shooting fundamentals
* Unconventional manual-of-arms
* Practical administrative loading options
* Unconscious cylinder indexing
* Partial cylinder (Newhall) tactics
* Loose round loading tactics
* Speed strip loading tactics
* Speedloader loading tactics
* Coat pocket shooting drills
* Emergency contact shooting skills


This class is perfect for the new and intermediate level snub revolver owner. The program will present shooting methods and manipulations unique to the short-barreled revolver, as well as improve the snub owner's overall revolver handling skills. No special shooting skill level is required, but shooters should have an understanding of fundamental gun safety, as well as the revolver's basic operation.

"Mr. de Bethencourt has decades of experience with the snub-nose revolvers to share. He offers a lively and informative program and will challenge your thinking on these under-rated little guns." - Ralph Mroz, Nationally known firearms writer and Training Director for the Police Officers Safety Association.

Equipment List:

* Snub revolver (3" or under - any .38 or .357 caliber)
* A good quality holster (Must permit safe re-holstering) -some are available for loan
* A good quality (thick) belt
* Ear and eye protection
* A shooting cap with a baseball-style bill
* A second snub is encouraged, should your primary break (optional only)
* 150 rounds of good quality ammunition (better ammo, better shooting, faster learning)
* Two speedloaders and two speed strips (optional only) Some are available for loan
* 3 ring notebook (no pager needed this is to put your handouts in)
* Pen or pencil
* A disposable pair of work pants (no jeans, and not the pair you will be wearing)
* Lunch, beverages/water and snacks (all lunches are working lunches)

http://snubtraining.com/coursesEssentials.php

[LastManOut]

The bottom line is, it was a very good two days of instruction. Fast paced, humorous with plenty of anecdotal examples and convincing reasons for why we were being taught the material.

Day #1, Saturday, started with Essentials of the Defensive Folding Knife. We were taught grips and defensive moves that would cover 90% of what we could expect based on third party research. After a working lunch the class shifted to Disarming an Attacker. Again simple to remember, a basic motion that would work for almost every encounter. No need to be Ninja Master 80th Level Mitsubushi to preform the moves necessary to disarm an attacker.

Sunday began the Essentials of the Snub Revolver course. Nomenclature, care and maintenance, gunsmithing recommendations, various equipment pro & cons, ammo requirements, reasons the snub is better than a pistol, drawstroke, reloading with speedloaders, loose ammo, speedstrips, dry fire exercises, sight picture, etc. All the training was interlaced with how to react in the aftermath of a shooting or attack, what to expect in court, etc.

The afternoon was live fire using the same drills we practiced in the morning.

Since this was the basic class, there was no advanced movement-off-the-X type of drills. It was all square range training.

I would recommend the class to anyone that carries or plans to carry a snub revolver for primary or back-up self-defense.

[synergy]

Maybe the students of his I saw were the exception to the rule...but I wasn't very impressed with the "training" they had received.

I had 2 recent grads of his come to my range and ask to do some holster work, said they had just done this course with the above mentioned instructor, and wanted to practice the mechanics of their draw stroke and reloading techniques. This was maybe a week ago.

What I witnessed was borderline unsafe. (Again, I'm not a student of his doing a first hand critique, I'm just judging what I've see his recent "graduates" do.)

I saw a lot of fingers in front of the muzzle during drawing and reholstering.
I saw guys struggling to keep shots on an FBI-Q bottle at 5 yards. Just throwing lead with a 5 shot gun...
And I saw some seriously exaggerated shooting stances and draw strokes. Critical time being wasted on unnecessary movement and stance finding.

These guys were looking at their targets as they were reloading loose rounds into their cylinders. When they went to reload...it looked like a ceremonial procedure. Swinging the gun hand up beside the face as if holding a sword in the air and crossing hands to smack the ejector rod....then swinging the arm all the way down so that it was extended below your waist, with a straight arm.

I'd much prefer to reload a revolver like Clint does here around 3:25ish


Again, just my observation, but these two students didn't look like they were in control of much. I don't carry a revolver, and don't have much interest in it. However, if I were to seek out training on it, it'd be with someone else, or with a different class format.

A higher round count, more intense focus on how to run the gun, lower student to instructor ratio...etc. It was just very evident that these students hadn't received enough instruction to be doing what they thought they should.

de Bethencourt might be a world class revolver shooter, but having students complete his courses with the skill set they had, is NOT doing him justice.

[LastManOut]

What you have described are inexperienced gun handlers. The ceremony you described, is an unpracticed drill by the students still very mechanical.

I suppose if a student took YOUR 1 day course and did not practice to get a fluid motion and learn/remember proper gun-handling techniques, that should not reflect directly on you as the trainer.

If you are more comfortable using Clint Smith's or Jerry Michlak's reloading drill, then by all means use that. de Bethencort teaches the simplest (in his experience) method for reloading an empty snub revolver (while keeping their eyes on their attacker. Good idea I think.).

I would say your students are about average in that they take a class and rarely take the gun back out of the nightstand until the next class.

[synergy]

What you have described are inexperienced gun handlers. The ceremony you described, is an unpracticed drill by the students still very mechanical.

I suppose if a student took YOUR 1 day course and did not practice to get a fluid motion and learn/remember proper gun-handling techniques, that should not reflect directly on you as the trainer.

If you are more comfortable using Clint Smith's or Jerry Michlak's reloading drill, then by all means use that. de Bethencort teaches the simplest (in his experience) method for reloading an empty snub revolver (while keeping their eyes on their attacker. Good idea I think.).

I would say your students are about average in that they take a class and rarely take the gun back out of the nightstand until the next class.

If I taught, and had students leave my courses like that....then yes, it'd reflect very poorly on me. It tells me I'm trying to spread my time too thin, and need to shrink the amount of material I cover, so I can cover what I need to, in depth. Students pointing guns at themselves.....I'd probably think that's worth taking the time to hammer home.

Offering a course which only scratches the surface on a gun handling technique, and doesn't teach the participants properly, is dangerous to me. This to me looked like a "I just shot a guy and it didn't stop him" kind of reloads...so you're saying participants in his courses are showed this, but not given the opportunity to get it dialed in?

What are the participants REALLY learning, if it's not how to get good hits with a Jframe, and reload it quickly? The students in question, I've observed shooting on my range a couple times a month for the past 6 months or so....they're not brand new to firearms...just new to fighting with a revolver.

You said day 1 was on edged weapons....day 2 should have been edged weapons too, or day 1 should have been Revolvers, IMO.

It sounds like this course was more of an experience, and less of a training. These students thought it was a training...and thought they had it all figured out after taking this course. They didn't know, what they didn't know.

They were still at the "unconscious incompetence" stage. They thought their near misses on their paper target at 5 yards were acceptable, that their gun handling was safe, and that their reloads were pretty good. They weren't even brought up to the "consciously incompetent" stage, where at least they'd understand that they have a lot left to learn. In my eyes, this is a direct reflection on how and what they were taught.

[LastManOut]

So if a student of yours, leaves cflass and does not practice what was taught or doesn't even know safe gun handling rules and is incompetent with a weapon then YOU are a crappy instructor? Let's interview the last 100 of your students and test their retention of your class instructional material to determine if you are the exception or the rule, Grasshopper.

In full disclosure, I have attended the class and Michael is a friend of mine and can I assume you are a trainer in competition for the limited training dollars available.

[synergy]

So if a student of yours, leaves cflass and does not practice what was taught or doesn't even know safe gun handling rules and is incompetent with a weapon then YOU are a crappy instructor? Let's interview the last 100 of your students and test their retention of your class instructional material to determine if you are the exception or the rule, Grasshopper.

In full disclosure, I have attended the class and Michael is a friend of mine and can I assume you are a trainer in competition for the limited training dollars available.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on all of your accusations.

I don't teach firearms. I do seek out quality instruction. I used to teach rock and ice climbing...anther activity with little room for F* ups.

If a student of mine were to shoot themselves in the hand, the next day, because I FAILED as an instructor to impart good gun handling skills upon them, or didn't pay enough attention to notice what they were doing while under my supervision... then YES, I would absolutely feel responsible. I believe the courts might, too.

So, for the last time, I don't have previous students to "interview." If I didn't impart safe weapons handling upon students (if I DID teach) I wouldn't consider myself worth training with.

[LastManOut]

Sorry but you are a bonehead if you think that showing a new gun owner in one eight hour class how to handle a gun is enough. So ONLY students of poor training have ND/AD?

His course description states: "shooters should have an understanding of fundamental gun safety, as well as the revolver's basic operation". It isn't the trainer's fault if the students lies.

It's much easier to criticize others, than to do it yourself.

[synergy]

Sorry but you are a bonehead if you think that showing a new gun owner in one eight hour class how to handle a gun is enough. So ONLY students of poor training have ND/AD?

His course description states: "shooters should have an understanding of fundamental gun safety, as well as the revolver's basic operation". It isn't the trainer's fault if the students lies.

It's much easier to criticize others, than to do it yourself.

If you feel this way, then why are so many topics covered in such a short period of time? You want to give everyone a taste of everything out there....rather than drill home safe techniques?

Please explain your comment about being "easier to criticize other, than to do it yourself"....I think you still have it in your head that I'm some competitor of his....I don't know how much more plainly I can put it.