A non-vote, or a third party vote for President...

[mabar]

For those who feel that:

1. McCain is too liberal to support
2. McCain does not support the Second Amendment strongly enough
3. McCain does not deserve their vote because of McCain/Feingold, or McCain/Kennedy
4. You want to "send a message" to the Republican Party to become more conservative

Please consider: There is ABSOLUTELY no way a third-party candidate can win the Presidency in 2008. Absolutely no chance. Zero, Zip, Nada. A vote for a third-party candidate (to send a message) or a non-vote for President is basically a vote for Obama.

So, for those conservatives who will not vote for McCain, please ask yourself: Who will do our great country more harm? Obama or McCain?

Obama is vehemently anti-gun, and anti-Second Amendment, no matter what he says about his "support for the Second Amendment." His statements and voting record over the last few years have proven that Obama has NEVER, EVER voted to support the Second Amendment, or the rights of gun owners. He did not even sign on to the amicus brief supporting Heller as did 53 other Senators, yet he claims he supports the rights of DC gun owners. He famously claims he supported the Heller decision AFTER the Supreme Court (barely) ruled in favor of Heller.
http://www.gurapossessky.com/news/pa...rsUSSenate.pdf

Obama is anti-First Amendment in his support for the Fairness Doctrine, which would basically put conservative talk-radio (as well as other conservative media) out of business, while leaving intact the liberal ABC, CBS, NBC, MSMBC, CNN, most Universities, Colleges and more.

Obama has stated time and time again that he wants to "re-distribute your wealth"

Obama's voting record in the US Senate shows he is one of the most liberal US Senators ever.

Obama's voting record in the Illinois Senate shows that he voted "present" 129 times over eight years!
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...present_votes/

Obama is guaranteed to appoint ultra-liberal Supreme Court Justices, and many hundreds of liberal federal judges over a 4 or 8 year term. This will move the USA closer to socialism, and change the face of the USA forever. McCain has promised to appoint more conservative, justices and judges.

Please understand that a non-vote for president, or a third-party "send a message" vote, is basically a vote for Obama. For those conservatives who "can't support McCain," please consider "holding your nose" and voting for McCain to prevent Obama from gaining the White House this year, and probably for 8 years

[ThoughtCriminal]

Please understand that a non-vote for president, or a third-party "send a message" vote, is basically a vote for Obama.

Did you think of that all by yourself? What you don't understand is that some of us vote our of PRINCIPLE, we don't treat the vote like a horse race. If a third party gets enough votes, than they will be on the ballot in all 50 states and will be able to participate in the debates.

BTW, the best response I've found to the people who tell me this is: "If I wasn't gonna vote for a third party candidate I'd be voting for obama anyway." This has shut their stupid rhetoric down real quickly, I've just gotten the deer in the headlights look.

[adymond]

Did you think of that all by yourself? What you don't understand is that some of us vote our of PRINCIPLE, we don't treat the vote like a horse race. If a third party gets enough votes, than they will be on the ballot in all 50 states and will be able to participate in the debates.

BTW, the best response I've found to the people who tell me this is: "If I wasn't gonna vote for a third party candidate I'd be voting for obama anyway." This has shut their stupid rhetoric down real quickly, I've just gotten the deer in the headlights look.

Are you implying that anyone who votes for an R or a D doesn't vote out of principle? Just wondering cause that is sort of what it sounds like.

[Slotimus]

This thread idea is the problem with America. People feel that their vote will get thrown away so they'd rather vote for the lesser evil. Stop voting for the lesser evil and vote for the person who you agree with, thats how democracy works.

[Exbiker]

What most of us realize is that except for one of the big 2 parties the other candidates don`t have a snowballs chance in hell. In order to salvage what little is left most will vote for somebody that has a chance. Yes it`s the lessor of two evils in a sense but I haven`t seen a 3rd party or independent that really has the whole ball of wax anyway.
Life is about strategy and occasionally compromise.

You`re from Bucks what have you participated in locally?

[5711-Marine]

I have a serious question and do not intend this to be a 3rd party vs an R or a D debate.

Do those of you who support a third party on principles, agree with 100% of the party platform?

or are there areas that you disagree with but still intend to vote for the third party because the good out weighs the bad in the platform?

[Slotimus]

I have a serious question and do not intend this to be a 3rd party vs an R or a D debate.

Do those of you who support a third party on principles, agree with 100% of the party platform?

or are there areas that you disagree with but still intend to vote for the third party because the good out weighs the bad in the platform?

The choice is not between 'Continue killing our soldiers and innocents overseas, and continue destroying my constitutional rights as well as our rights to privacy' or 'lose all my guns and raise taxes' with 3rd parties.

[LittleRedToyota]

Do those of you who support a third party on principles, agree with 100% of the party platform?

i agree with the vast majority of the libertarian party platform, so i generally vote for libertarians, but not always.

but, more than anything, the long-term future of this country depends entirely on breaking the republicrat/demoblican stranglehold. the only way this is ever going to happen is if people stop throwing their votes away by "voting for the lesser of two evils".

if we do not free america from their grasp, the nanny state will just keep getting bigger and bigger and more and more invasive, you will continue to be less and less free, the constitution and rule of law will continue to be ignored, and we will continue to become more and more socialist. both major parties stand in favor of all of that. voting for either is a vote to continue that...perhaps at a *slightly* accelerated or decelerated pace on any one microissue, but, in general, in the long-run, make no mistake about it, they both are taking us the same place.

so, now i have a question for the "lesser of two evils" voters...

every single election, you guys bring out the whole "your throwing your vote away. wait until there is a 3rd party with a viable chance of winning before voting for them."

well, how the hell is there ever going to be a viable 3rd party if everyone follows your advice? there isn't. you are caught up in a self-fulfilling prophecy. and, frankly, you are doing exactly what the puppet masters want you to do. you are voting to keep them in power. you are voting for the status quo.

someone once said something like "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". well, that is exactly what anyone who thinks we need a real change but still votes for either obama or mccain (but does not actually support whichever of the two they are voting for) is doing.

if you believe in the republican platform or you believe in the democrat platform, then by all means vote that way.

however, if you do not...if you think that we need to actually return to the constitution and tear down the huge, out-of-control nanny state federal government and you vote for either a dem or a rep, you are the one throwing your vote away.

it has to start somewhere. and it has to start sometime. and it is getting damn near too late.

[billamj]

so, now i have a question for the "lesser of two evils" voters...

every single election, you guys bring out the whole "your throwing your vote away. wait until there is a 3rd party with a viable chance of winning before voting for them."

well, how the hell is there ever going to be a viable 3rd party if everyone follows your advice?

There are two options there. You can either do what the Rs and Ds did and change the base party from the inside(how the hell else did they get so far from their origins) or you can start local and grow with strength. If third party candidates start to run and win at the local level it is only a matter of time before they are seen as being viable at higher levels. The problem is that many people within the third parties want instant gratification or only consider themselves interested in higher level seats. Until those lines of thoughts get changed...

[Lysander]

This thread idea is the problem with America. People feel that their vote will get thrown away so they'd rather vote for the lesser evil. Stop voting for the lesser evil and vote for the person who you agree with, thats how democracy works.

Vote Chthulu - why settle for the "lesser" evils?

Do those of you who support a third party on principles, agree with 100% of the party platform?

or are there areas that you disagree with but still intend to vote for the third party because the good out weighs the bad in the platform?

Damn good question; one we don't hear much of.

The choice is not between 'Continue killing our soldiers and innocents overseas, and continue destroying my constitutional rights as well as our rights to privacy' or 'lose all my guns and raise taxes' with 3rd parties.

Sadly, that's a lot of straw; from what I gather, there *is* disagreement, just not the *same* disagreement as with either the Republicans or Democrats.

The name of of the game is NOT the popular vote, but the Electoral College count. When third parties are being organized on January 31, 2009 - from the ground up - and not simply as an ego ride for those that want to run for President but really do not have any probability of winning, then (and for me, only then) would a third party alternative be worth my while considering. When the only depth of field comes from the two majors, why play with the minors?