happened to me in Reading

**bradjc72** · December 7th, 2008, 12:40 PM

Just reading another thread about lehigh county courthouse not making lockers available anymore, I have to tell you that Berks county also, does not make them available. I was serving jury duty back this spring for a 4 week trial, and the first day I asked the guards that I would like a locker, and they stated that they were for LEO only, and that I would have to leave my weapon in my car.

How stupid is that advice?? leave it in my car, I gotta tell you that the deputy was very nice to talk to, but completely off line in reference to his advice, and I would tell you PA PATRIOT that if you want to fire anything off to those guys, that would be fantastic.

**Statkowski** · December 7th, 2008, 12:48 PM

a. You should have piped up earlier this Spring. Mid-December is a little bit late - things may have changed since then.

b. Why not call or write the Sheriff's Office and ask for the official policy on such. If it's still as it was, ask why it's in violation of state law.

c. If they still give you a load of crap, then it's time to call in the cavalry.

**gnbrotz** · December 7th, 2008, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Statkowski

b. Why not call or write the Sheriff's Office and ask for the official policy on such in writing. If it's still as it was, ask why it's in violation of state law.

Statkowski, as always, makes great points. See my own suggestion on point b above.

**indianjack** · December 7th, 2008, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by bradjc72

and they stated that they were for LEO only, and that I would have to leave my weapon in my car.

Ok so someone overhears the LEO tell you to put it into your car. He brakes into your car while you are on Jury duty and steals your piece. Then you get arrested by the same LEO because you didn't notify the state of your firearm being stolen, no wait that law hasn't been passed, yet, stay tuned!

**Statkowski** · December 7th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Draft letter for problems:

Sheriff [insert name here]
[insert mailing address here]

Dear Sheriff [name]:

I recently had business to conduct at the [xxx] County Court House. Upon entering the front entrance I immediately attempted to have the [deputies/security guards] secure my lawfully-carried firearm so that I would not be in violation of state law. Imagine my surprise when I was informed by the [deputy/security guard] that firearms storage was for law enforcement officers only and that I would have to secure my not-inexpensive firearm in my car (so that someone could break in and steal it?).

I believe the [xxx] County Court House [deputies/security guards] need to be brought up-to-date on current state law. Firearms storage at court facilities is to be offered to all that require such, not just law enforcement officers.

According to 18 Pa. C.S. 913:

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.—Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d). (Chgd. by L.1999, Act 59, eff 2/15/00.)

Trusting you will attend to this matter and educate those who require such, I await your response.

Sincerely,

**gunga** · December 7th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Statkowski

Draft letter for problems:

Sheriff [insert name here]
[insert mailing address here]

Dear Sheriff [name]:

I recently had business to conduct at the [xxx] County Court House. Upon entering the front entrance I immediately attempted to have the [deputies/security guards] secure my lawfully-carried firearm so that I would not be in violation of state law. Imagine my surprise when I was informed by the [deputy/security guard] that firearms storage was for law enforcement officers only and that I would have to secure my not-inexpensive firearm in my car (so that someone could break in and steal it?).

I believe the [xxx] County Court House [deputies/security guards] need to be brought up-to-date on current state law. Firearms storage at court facilities is to be offered to all that require such, not just law enforcement officers.

According to 18 Pa. C.S. 913:

(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous weapons.—Each county shall make available at or within the building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section 6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt. Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as required under subsection (d). (Chgd. by L.1999, Act 59, eff 2/15/00.)

Trusting you will attend to this matter and educate those who require such, I await your response.

Sincerely,

Well done. I would suggest having another similar fill-in-the-blanks style letter than people can send prior to a visit to the courthouse to ensure there will be lockers and security staff that understands the law.

**Kimba** · December 7th, 2008, 01:45 PM

Sorry, but I have to put my .02 in.

If you have a personal problem with your courthouse, why not try to handle it yourself.

Why is it always up to Pa Patriot and Gnbrotz (just to name a few), the ones that always have to step up to the plate? I can understand going to them for advice and guidance as they are very good at providing information pertaining to gun laws and rights. But why not write your own letter to the powers that be?

These men have done a lot for the forum and the community. They have enough burden on their shoulders already. Why can't we make it a little easier for them.

I am not a great letter writer and when dealing with the legalese, my head spins. But if I might suggest a standard letter for issues dealing with courhouses be made and stickied so any member could just pull it up, and fill in the blanks. A letter could be useful for parks that having a no firearm sign. We seem to see the same issues over and over, a standard letter for the more common issues would be very helpful.

I do not speak for the members listed above, it is just the way that I see it. If I overstepped the line, let me know and I will delete this post.

**chrisjames_71** · December 7th, 2008, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kimba

Sorry, but I have to put my .02 in.

If you have a personal problem with your courthouse, why not try to handle it yourself.

Why is it always up to Pa Patriot and Gnbrotz (just to name a few), the ones that always have to step up to the plate? I can understand going to them for advice and guidance as they are very good at providing information pertaining to gun laws and rights. But why not write your own letter to the powers that be?

These men have done a lot for the forum and the community. They have enough burden on their shoulders already. Why can't we make it a little easier for them.

I am not a great letter writer and when dealing with the legalese, my head spins. But if I might suggest a standard letter for issues dealing with courhouses be made and stickied so any member could just pull it up, and fill in the blanks. A letter could be useful for parks that having a no firearm sign. We seem to see the same issues over and over, a standard letter for the more common issues would be very helpful.

I do not speak for the members listed above, it is just the way that I see it. If I overstepped the line, let me know and I will delete this post.

You beat me to it, I was thinking the same thing..

**HiredGoon** · December 7th, 2008, 02:29 PM

Here's something to point out to the Berks Co. sheriff from his own website:

(Excerpt from the INFORMATION ON PENNSYLVANIA FIREARMS LAWS)

It is unlawful to possess any firearm in a court facility. At or within the building containing a
court facility, lockers or similar facilities shall be available by July 1, 2002, at no charge, for
the temporary checking of firearms by persons lawfully carrying same. A receipt must be
issued to the individual checking a firearm.

**gnbrotz** · December 7th, 2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by gunga

Well done. I would suggest having another similar fill-in-the-blanks style letter than people can send prior to a visit to the courthouse to ensure there will be lockers and security staff that understands the law.

I don't send a letter before visiting a courthouse, I simply bring along a printout of §913, with the paragraph about storage facilities in bold/red. So far, I've never had to actually refer to it. I've attached a copy to this post so that others can do this as well, if they like.

I have 'called ahead' for occasions like Meleanie's hearing to confirm they were aware of the law, and prepared to accommodate what will surely be a larger than usual volume of firearms being checked. I've also done this knowing that the media would be present, and if there were any resistance I could say "I spoke to Mr. Smith on this date and as a courtesy alerted him to these circumstances so they would be prepared to be in full compliance with the law." That quickly removes the possibility of any "We had no idea there would be this many people" BS.

But again, for a single individual, on a routine matter, I would not personally call ahead, even if I knew there had been a previous issue. I know the law. I expect them to do the same without having to hold their hand. If that's an issue, then can explain it to me (and my digital recorder) when I get there, and we'll take it from there. To me, it's the same as calling ahead to ask permission to OC somewhere. I just don't do it.

Originally Posted by Kimba

A letter could be useful for parks that having a no firearm sign. We seem to see the same issues over and over, a standard letter for the more common issues would be very helpful.

Over here, there is a template 'statement' to be given at a public meeting when a preemption violation is found (see post #2). This statement can be easily turned into a letter which can be sent to address such concerns.