A different National Park carry question

[smithwessn]

I have a couple of questions.

I often OC while riding my motorcycle.
Say I'm on my bike on a highway or road that cuts through the park-

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Va...1&geocode=CITY




The Pottstown Expressway (Rt 422) and Rt 23 both cut through the park. I travel Rt 422 all the time and Rt 23 on occasion. When I am on one of these roads where they cut through, am I considered to be "in" the park if I stay on the road?

By PA definition, a motorcycle is a vehicle. If I am OC and then get on my bike, am I CC until I get off of it?

Do you think I could get put in the pokey for OC while on my bike passing through it if I haven't pulled into a parking lot?

Is the definition of OC/CC the same on the National level as state level or does the National Park use the definition of the state in which it is in?

That's a lot of questions but I'm sure you can see how confusing the situation could be. I would hate to get arrested for OC in a National Park while simply enjoying a motorcycle ride.

I could avoid the situation by just covering up while passing through this area, but, you know......

[tl_3237]

I have a couple of questions.

I often OC while riding my motorcycle.
Say I'm on my bike on a highway or road that cuts through the park-

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Va...1&geocode=CITY




The Pottstown Expressway (Rt 422) and Rt 23 both cut through the park. I travel Rt 422 all the time and Rt 23 on occasion. When I am on one of these roads where they cut through, am I considered to be "in" the park if I stay on the road?

Since 422 is state maintained I'm GUESSING that it is not part of the Park. Beware - maintainance is not necessarily a legal determination of what constitutes non-park property.

By PA definition, a motorcycle is a vehicle. If I am OC and then get on my bike, am I CC until I get off of it?

OC is OC. OC on a MC is still OC. The issue is that you probably (although some may argue to the contrary) need an LTCF under 18 Pa CSA 6106 while on the MC. The issue is that the statute specifies "in a vehicle". Some would argue that is doesn't cover MCs since you ride "on". Wanna be a test case?

Do you think I could get put in the pokey for OC while on my bike passing through it if I haven't pulled into a parking lot?

Federally no, IMO. But the issue remains for possible state charges w/o LTCF

Is the definition of OC/CC the same on the National level as state level or does the National Park use the definition of the state in which it is in?

THe definitions or lack thereof are essentially the same

That's a lot of questions but I'm sure you can see how confusing the situation could be. I would hate to get arrested for OC in a National Park while simply enjoying a motorcycle ride.

Don't blame you but it would be great if someone would establish case law to settle the issue

I could avoid the situation by just covering up while passing through this area THat's what I would do if I had an LTCF, but, you know......

Red embedded comments mine.

[smithwessn]

I have a LTCF, so that is not an issue.

[Statkowski]

Having, or not having an LTCF may possibly be an issue. Is that portion of the parkway considered part of the National Park? Can't answer that one.

But, concerning carrying in the National Park, that won't become effective until some time from now.

And, until it becomes effective, the current National Park rules still stand.

[smithwessn]

Having, or not having an LTCF may possibly be an issue. Is that portion of the parkway considered part of the National Park? Can't answer that one.

But, concerning carrying in the National Park, that won't become effective until some time from now.

And, until it becomes effective, the current National Park rules still stand.

Yeah, I know the new law doesn't take effect untill next year. I was only wondering if the roads and highway that cut through the park are considered to be a part of the park and if you are considered to be "in" the park when traveling that portion of roadway.

[wa3ra]

State highway rights of way are state land; you are fine.

On the other hand, Route 209 from just beyond Stroudsburg all the way to Milford is a FEDERAL highway; patrolled by the National Park Service, replete with RADAR and VASCAR, both of which they are authorized to use.

[64Jeeper]

I drive an open aired Jeep through Valley Forge every morning between 5:30 and 6am, and every afternoon between 2:30 and 3pm. I normally CC because of my job, but on my way home I OC after I leave work. Since I am in my Jeep, it's considered CC, so I don't worry about it. Besides, when you are driving, no one is bothering to look to see if you are carrying, and as long as you are obeying the speed limit, there should be no reason for you to get stopped anyway.

[smithwessn]

I drive an open aired Jeep through Valley Forge every morning between 5:30 and 6am, and every afternoon between 2:30 and 3pm. I normally CC because of my job, but on my way home I OC after I leave work. Since I am in my Jeep, it's considered CC, so I don't worry about it. Besides, when you are driving, no one is bothering to look to see if you are carrying, and as long as you are obeying the speed limit, there should be no reason for you to get stopped anyway.

I never really thought about it until the other day. I was OC on the bike on 422 at the Valley Forge exit in bumper to bumper morning traffic. I was in the left lane and a US Park Ranger cruiser was in the right lane. I nearly passed him but traffic in the right lane started moving faster than the traffic in the left lane. While I didn't think I was technically "in" the park, I started wondering if they would bust my chops. I just assumed the road is owned by the state and isn't considered to be part of the park but you never know.

[Dannytheman]

23 is state road, that is plowed, salted and managed by the State. I think you are good to drive 23 through the park. Same with 422 as it borders the Historic Federal Park. Also, this would include 252, once the bridge is rebuilt.

[64Jeeper]

23 is state road, that is plowed, salted and managed by the State. I think you are good to drive 23 through the park. Same with 422 as it borders the Historic Federal Park. Also, this would include 252, once the bridge is rebuilt.

Yea, having that bridge out is a pain in the ass for me. I've had to take that road that takes you past the arch, and the cobblestone part of the road, and the "5" SPEED "HUMPS" to get me back to where I'm going. I can't wait till they get that finished!!

Rant over, sorry, back on topic..........................