Disarmed for "officer safety": Any case law?

[steveforopen]

Are there any Supreme Court cases or statutes that give the police authority to disarm you, especially under the flag of "officer safety" ?

Was reading a post regarding being a passenger of a vehicle and then being disarmed after showing LTCF.

This sounds like a violation of the 4th amendment. I can't see how a search of a person or being disarmed could be authorized, sounds like an illegal Terry stop.

Anything?

[larrymeyer]

IANAL but if I was on duty I would want the gun out of sight or off your person if I knew you had one. I don't think an officer is going to shoot you and BG don't like to get involved with LEO's so your pretty safe either handing it over or keeping it out of sight.

I don't know of any cases that say you have to though. If you refuse you may be charged with disregarding a lawful order from a LEO

[knight0334]

Its legal...

Officer safety issue:
Terry v. Ohio - US Supreme Court ....aka "Terry Stop"

and

PA Commonwealth v. Hawkins - PA Supreme Court.

If for any reason the officer feels uncertain about his(or others') safety during a stop - he can search/disarm those that are part of the situation.

Open carrying was ruled though as perfectly legal outside a vehicle(and city of first class) and gave an officer no justification to warrant a stop, arrest, or seizure. (Hawkins -refers back to Terry in parts too)

[wewo]

IANAL I don't think an officer is going to shoot you ... so your pretty safe either handing it over or keeping it out of sight.

True, you are more likely to get shot by LEO for handing over your wallet (Amadou Dialo) or trying to drive unarmed (Sean Bell). More seriously, I would not want to pull a loaded weapon from my holster in the presence of an LEO, especially one who is concerned about his "safety". How exactly is it more safe to let an unknown person unholster? I would keep my hands on the steering wheel or near my head and nowhere near my weapon. I would prefer to be tackled and handcuffed than shot. "No sir, I will not touch my firearm in your presence."

[EDOGZ818]

IMO , Terry vs. Ohio states that RAS ( Reasonable Articulatable Suspicion ) must be present.

Absent of RAS , the stop becomes a ROUST.

[Dredly]

Keep in mind... an officer can legally pull you over for just about anything while you are driving and they can stop and inspect you for just about any reason when you are walking or riding a bike

add in "their safety" and an officer can disarm you for any reason at any time.

[EDOGZ818]

Legally they can't. In reality , they do. Legally , there is supposed to be a reason for a stop.

[knight0334]

Legally they can't. In reality , they do. Legally , there is supposed to be a reason for a stop.

Legally they can.

The reason for the stop could be as little as a traffic violation, jay-walking, or other infractions... From that point on if the officer feels endangered you could be patted down and disarmed.

In places say like PA - carrying a gun(openly - baring Philly & vehicle) isn't a crime. ...so that wouldn't be reason enuff. But if you were stopped for any other crime, you could be disarmed during the investigation, citation/warning writing, arrest, etc and it'd be a lawful Terry search/stop/disarming. ...all there has to be is suspicion of crime or probable cause and for the officer to feel threatened.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

IANAL but if I was on duty I would want the gun out of sight or off your person if I knew you had one. I don't think an officer is going to shoot you and BG don't like to get involved with LEO's so your pretty safe either handing it over or keeping it out of sight.

I don't know of any cases that say you have to though. If you refuse you may be charged with disregarding a lawful order from a LEO

Whoa! This sounds messed up! Not just Larry's quote...but a few other's comments as well!

Wait till the big voices of PAFOA see this thread.

YES - LEO can pull me over for just about anything.
Hand over my Firearm for their safety??!! BULLSHIT! For what reasonable suspicion???

Darn right I'll comply - but I'll make it VERY clear (audible) for the 'dash cam' that I DO NOT CONSENT!
Ask that officer what the RAS is for him to want to seize your firearm.
I'll be 'nice-as-pie' NON-consenting citizen!



AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING.........Yes, I'll cooperate without consenting. But If I respectfully and tactfully ask the officer what his RAS or PC is (depending on his actions), is he REQUIRED to respond?????



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[Gary in Pennsylvania]

From that point on if the officer feels endangered you could be patted down and disarmed.

I'd be PRAYING that the dash-cam audio/video was running. He FEELS endangered??????

If I appear intoxicated, drugged, overly excited or paranoid...I see that. But, any other circumstances....that badge better have a DAMN good reason for wanting my firearm!



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