Please help me understand

[Mango]

A lot of misinterpreted stats and misleading information out there. I am trying to make sure I have all my information correct as I try to do my part in defending our rights. I need some clarification on a few things:

1. Is there a gun show loop hole? I watched the ABS show where Bob from CP said there was no loop hole but the host said some states do have one. He said Ohio is I am not mistaken. Also if can sell a long gun to someone privately, isn't that a loop hole?

2. What is the definition of an "Assault Weapon". It is my understanding that it isn't about the power, capacity or even mechanical features but about how mean it looks.

Thanks

[Tootie]

The true definition of an "Assault rifle" is

as·sault ri·fle
Noun
A rapid-fire, magazine-fed automatic rifle designed for infantry use.

What they are trying to claim to be an "Assault rifle" via Connecticut's AWB already in place is.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/Ch...Sec53-202a.htm

(1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol;

(2) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria:

(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A bayonet mount;

(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) A grenade launcher; or

(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

(iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

(iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

(v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; or

(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

(iv) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

(4) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

(b) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, the term "assault weapon" does not include any firearm modified to render it permanently inoperable.

I'll let someone else come in here and address the "loop hole"

[y0rlik]

The so-called 'gun show loophole' is just that the Federal government leaves transfers between private individuals who are residents of the same state (/not/ buying from dealers) up to the individual state to regulate (or not) as it sees fit. Many states allow any firearm to be transferred between individuals without involving an FFL (PA only requires an FFL transfer for handguns, but not for long guns; DE does not require a dealer for either type). I believe it's called the gun show loophole because /historically/ the place most private sales occurred was at a gun show. Without the internet, the easiest place to find someone looking to buy your firearm was the gun show.

[Mango]

thanks for the clarification Tootie. That is what I thought but did not have the reference.

y0rlik, that makes sense why they call it a gunshow loop hole. I guess it is an area where perhaps there should be some more regulation...I would give that up with we can remove the gun free zones...

[Solaran_X]

The term "assault weapon" really has no definition. It is whatever it needs to be to further the agenda of the anti-gun politicians and lobbyists.

The term "assault weapon" was created by the anti-gun politicians and lobbyists prior to the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 as a way of getting public support for their bill. You see, the term "assault weapon" intentionally bears a very close resemblance to "assault rifle," which is a selective fire capable weapon with at least one mode of automatic fire (either burst or full auto). So when the word "assault weapon" is used, people have mental images of fully automatic assault rifles like the M16 and thus ended up supporting the ban on semiautomatic rifles that had scary visual features - like a barrel shroud or pistol grip - but were functionally identical to common semiautomatic firearms like the Ruger 10/22 that were not covered by the ban.

One of the first steps we should take, as a community, is to stop validating the term "assault weapon" by referring to our semiautomatics as them.

[Metz]

"Assault weapon" is a bullshit word, that was made up to scare the public. I believe it originated from "assault rifle" - a direct translation from German "sturmgewehr".

As of the gun show loophole, there is an option for law abiding citizen to perform gun transaction outside of Big Brother's line of sight. Liberals insist, that criminals use this so called "loophole", however Bloomberg's agents are the only one, who pretended to be not-so-law-abiding and buying a gun at the show. Real criminals are trying to stay as far away from the gun shows as possible due to the increased police presence as well as quite few VERY law abiding citizens, who'll not hesitate to turn them in.

[TaePo]

Yes, our semi-autos do not count as assault weapons IMHO. There is no full auto or selective fire capability.

The word 'assault' in the military sense is not about assaulting people or a body of people. It is about assaulting a position, meaning to approach and take over a position defended by another force. This is usually done through superior fire power. Suppressive fire becomes very important as defenders have the advantage. I forget what the expectation was in the American Civil War, but you wanted more people than defenders. IIRC, it was a minimum of two to one, but three or more to one was ideal. So, to be successful, to overpower 200 defenders, you would want an assault force of 600 at a minimum. The defenders are usually firing from cover and are more difficult to detect and hit. Therefore you want as much lead downrange as possible to keep them behind cover and additional people will help cover losses while you close to contact. It is important to also note that suppressive fire is not really aimed fire either (though it could be).

The antis like the word assault as it conjures up criminal behavior such as 'assault and battery' etc. I believe the term battery has fallen and assault is the go-to word in today's legal system. It used to be assault was the threat of use of force and battery was the actual harm of committing physical force against someone. Assault now bears both definitions. IANAL so leave it to them to correct me or to be more specific.

If you conduct an operation and there is no resistance, by military terms, you have assaulted the position. This is, of course, the best scenario. It is even better if no one confronts your possession of it either. In other words, no one counter attack or conducts an assault to dispossess you of it. So it is possible to assault a position without firing a shot nor anyone getting hurt.

We must separate the two uses of the word (civilian vs. military). From dictionary.com:

as·sault
[uh-sawlt] Show IPA

noun
1. a sudden, violent attack; onslaught: an assault on tradition.

2. Law. an unlawful physical attack upon another; an attempt or offer to do violence to another, with or without battery, as by holding a stone or club in a threatening manner.

3. Military . the stage of close combat in an attack.

4. rape.

verb (used with object)
5. to make an assault upon; attack; assail.

As you can see, numbers two and three are quite different and so is the use/design or tactic of the rifle.

[TonyF]

1. Is there a gun show loop hole? I watched the ABS show where Bob from CP said there was no loop hole but the host said some states do have one. He said Ohio is I am not mistaken. Also if can sell a long gun to someone privately, isn't that a loop hole?

The "gunshow loophole" is a misnomer.

The issue is the private transfer of firearms between individuals in the state in which they reside.

As another member pointed out, PA allows for the transfer of long guns between individuals without an FFL intermediary but stipulates an FFL for the transfer of handguns.

Some states allow the transfer of either without involving an FFL.

[arjohnson]

The term loophole is just a term used for the private sale of a gun from one individual to another without the use of an FFL dealer.

In Pa this can only be done with long guns, all handgun sales must go through a FFL unless it's an immediate family member. Such as father/son, father/daughter etc, then no FFL needed by law.

Some states allow long guns and handguns to be sold through private sales without use of an FFL, this is what's known as "the gunshow loophole".

[Brick]

Look guys to be sure we all have our own opinions about what constitutes an assault weapon and how it differs from an assault rifle.

But in the 1994 AWB the term "assault weapon" was defined and pretty much in the terms Tootie shows us for the Connecticut law. That made the term "assault weapon" a legal term (even though possibibly incorrect and technically wrong).

Lately our asstute (there's a reason for the mispelling) reporters have made the "leap of logic" that an assault weapon that is also a rifle must be an assault rifle! As far as we're concerned they're doing no more than showing their ignorance. Perhaps our best bet would be to start calling our EBRs National Defense Weapons!