This is what bothers me

**Jackal** · November 30th, 2007, 10:25 AM

I was having a discussion the other day with an older woman in my neighborhood. The topic, gun rights. She asked me if "I was going to shoot up some schools too." I said no and that I just wanted to exercise my rights. Then she got really frazzled and said "well I dont think people should be allowed to have those semi automatic things." And she proceeded to make a gesture that I guess indicates what "those semi automatic" guns shoot like. Citing self defense on my side, she still didnt see the need.

This was just a conversation though that got me thinking on the broad scale, if this woman thinks this, who else? There must be some surreptitious reasoning for the successive waves of anti-gun thinking. So think about it, when was the last time you saw the news and were instructed or educated by gun stories.....please name one if you can think of it. I dont watch the news much, but they are always toting guns in a negative light, who was killed with guns, how crime supposedly goes up with guns, we need more gun control for safety, philly cops shot with guns, etc.

Then you see movies. I personally have never seen a movie (and I have seen many) that portrays a regular citizen cc'ing or open carrying. I have seen psychopaths murdering people with guns, I have seen rogue cops shooting bad guys or Rambo wasting some bad guys, etc. Guns in movies are kind of looked at as for criminals or for police, what about the average citizen?

So, its impossible for someone to look at guns in a respectful and understanding way when they are touted as evil and dangerous 24/7 through virtually all means of information dissemination. Unless you consciously look for info, you will be bombarded and saturated by stories making you at least partially against the rights to keep and bear arms. So next time you get angry about legislation, think about all the people who are terribly misinformed, that is the root of the problem.

**Philadelphia** · November 30th, 2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by jh664322

I was having a discussion the other day with an older woman in my neighborhood. The topic, gun rights. She asked me if "I was going to shoot up some schools too." I said no and that I just wanted to exercise my rights. Then she got really frazzled and said "well I dont think people should be allowed to have those semi automatic things." And she proceeded to make a gesture that I guess indicates what "those semi automatic" guns shoot like. Citing self defense on my side, she still didnt see the need.

This was just a conversation though that got me thinking on the broad scale, if this woman thinks this, who else? There must be some surreptitious reasoning for the successive waves of anti-gun thinking. So think about it, when was the last time you saw the news and were instructed or educated by gun stories.....please name one if you can think of it. I dont watch the news much, but they are always toting guns in a negative light, who was killed with guns, how crime supposedly goes up with guns, we need more gun control for safety, philly cops shot with guns, etc.

Then you see movies. I personally have never seen a movie (and I have seen many) that portrays a regular citizen cc'ing or open carrying. I have seen psychopaths murdering people with guns, I have seen rogue cops shooting bad guys or Rambo wasting some bad guys, etc. Guns in movies are kind of looked at as for criminals or for police, what about the average citizen?

So, its impossible for someone to look at guns in a respectful and understanding way when they are touted as evil and dangerous 24/7 through virtually all means of information dissemination. Unless you consciously look for info, you will be bombarded and saturated by stories making you at least partially against the rights to keep and bear arms. So next time you get angry about legislation, think about all the people who are terribly misinformed, that is the root of the problem.

Every liberal knows that the minute you hand a law abiding citizen a gun, they run out and shoot up a school, murder a cop, and then pop a few soccer moms over a road rage incident for good measure.

The only thing that can help is to just let people know that you believe in the utility of allowing law abiding citizens to own and carry guns, that you are not a nutcase, and they really have nothing to worry about from anyone other than the criminal element.

If you think she's open to it, ask her if she would like to see an unloaded gun and how its safety features work. Gun can't go off unless you pull the trigger, any additional safties, etc. If it's a go, first off show her how to tell for sure that the gun is unloaded to calm any fears she might have about that and then let her handle it if she wants.

I've had reasonable success with this approach -- even got a couple of antis to ask to come to the range with me to see what it's all about.

**Dave in PA** · November 30th, 2007, 11:08 AM

depending on if they are a hard core anti and you know you won't sway them, try to change the subject to whatever fits the situation. In yours, I may have said something like "you know what would really make things safer around here? Mandatory retesting of drivers when they hit 50. Including vision testing."

Otherwise, you can try the usual reasoning with facts and what not, but most of the time, they won't listen.

**brewguy** · November 30th, 2007, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dave in PA

depending on if they are a hard core anti and you know you won't sway them, try to change the subject to whatever fits the situation. In yours, I may have said something like "you know what would really make things safer around here? Mandatory retesting of drivers when they hit 50. Including vision testing."

Otherwise, you can try the usual reasoning with facts and what not, but most of the time, they won't listen.

And as soon as your neighbor is in trouble she will be screaming for you and your gun to protect her.

**mauser** · November 30th, 2007, 11:47 AM

Here's an example of why people have that type of mindset, it's the type of mindset the media wants them to have. I saw this in the paper at work yesterday. The Patriot News, (Number one newspaper in Pennsylvania, that's a scary thought), front page, top headline, columnist Nancy Eshelman's face beside big bold letters 8-year-olds hunt with guns? followed by a picture of 2 "cute" deer standing face to face nuzzling each other.
Here's the on-line version of it.
http://www.pennlive.com/columns/eshe...icle316744.ece
My first thought was: "WTF? I thought this was supposed to be a news paper, not an opinion paper".
There was plenty of news, all of it was more worthy of top billing on the front page than a columnists opinion. There is a section of the paper devoted to opinion, the front page is supposed to be for important NEWS.
The schools are just as bad as the media, if not worse!
Do we need to wonder why so many people have a negative opinion of gun owners?

**Jackal** · November 30th, 2007, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by mauser

Here's an example of why people have that type of mindset, it's the type of mindset the media wants them to have. I saw this in the paper at work yesterday. The Patriot News, (Number one newspaper in Pennsylvania, that's a scary thought), front page, top headline, columnist Nancy Eshelman's face beside big bold letters 8-year-olds hunt with guns? followed by a picture of 2 "cute" deer standing face to face nuzzling each other.
Here's the on-line version of it.
http://www.pennlive.com/columns/eshe...icle316744.ece
My first thought was: "WTF? I thought this was supposed to be a news paper, not an opinion paper".
There was plenty of news, all of it was more worthy of top billing on the front page than a columnists opinion. There is a section of the paper devoted to opinion, the front page is supposed to be for important NEWS.
The schools are just as bad as the media, if not worse!
Do we need to wonder why so many people have a negative opinion of gun owners?

Oh christ, what a load of crap. Why not just put a picture of bambi on their saying please dont hurt me. I think that program sounds like a great idea. And every time I go to the range and see a father and son shooting...it makes me feel good, like the legacy won't die.

The thing is, these people are "educated" and intelligent but they have little to no contact with guns. I have to admit, where I grew up I was fascinated by them and couldn't wait to get one, but I have never seen anyone OC or heard of anyone CC. A scant few have them around me too. So I think people, around me and possibly in general, have no contact with them except as they perceive them on tv or from the law. This is obviously dangerous because they have no concept of gun owners rights and they will be the ones screaming for new legislation. I want to build a time machine and send these folks back a couple hundred years to hunt off their own land and protect themselves and their property. I doubt anyone cared about gun control 250 years ago.

**Hawk** · November 30th, 2007, 01:47 PM

Most "non" gun owners get their perception of guns from the news. And we all know the news reports are never positive and are sensationalized to sell ad space. I recall recently the news covered a story where the police raided a house where a "kid" had an arsenal of "guns". The video portion of the report showed a bed full of what appeared to be real assault weapons and machine guns, but in reality they were Air Soft toys. Did the news mention this? No!

Hawk,

**bogey1** · November 30th, 2007, 02:27 PM

thats why there called LIBERALS or DEMOCRATS.......

**TaePo** · November 30th, 2007, 03:31 PM

If guns were not sensational tools, bad guys and crazies would not choose them.

(BTW, I used the word guns because it is shorter to type than firearms, or weapons!)

There-in lies the catch 22.

**Mtbkski** · November 30th, 2007, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dave in PA

depending on if they are a hard core anti and you know you won't sway them, try to change the subject to whatever fits the situation. In yours, I may have said something like "you know what would really make things safer around here? Mandatory retesting of drivers when they hit 50. Including vision testing."
Otherwise, you can try the usual reasoning with facts and what not, but most of the time, they won't listen.

Is this really a bad idea.