How to value antique firearms

[Militant Bunnies]

I recently found a dealer who specializes in antique firearms. Does anyone know where I can find information to help me determine the value of antique firearms? I don't have a trained eye but all the weapons I inspected were in beautiful condition. They contain original serial numbers and each weapon I inspected was 100% free of pitting and rust. I want to make a purchase but since I have no idea how to determine their value, the dealer could be taking advantage of me. I am most interested in his 1863 Springfield rifled musket and his Spencer repeater, but I don't remember the Spencer's date of manufacture. Any guidance or recommendations would be most welcome. Send me a PM or an email.

I'm new to the forum so please forgive me if I posted in the wrong forum.

[Jsheds]

Pick up a copy of 'Flaydermans guide to antique American firearms and thier values, it's a great reference and has approximate values for each arm listed. It has some history and descriptions for hundreds of firearms with guidelines on what what to look for when evaluating various examples. Easy to find on-line or at gun show bookstores.

[knight0334]

There is a "blue book" to guns to help you out. And online auction prices will more often than not, get you a reasonable ballpark figure.

[Xringshooter]

Flaydermans Guide to Antique Firearms is a good starting point for the old guns. The Blue Book of Gun Values is good for the more modern guns, although it does show some of the old guns also. I think Flaydermans gives a more complete description. The On-line auctions will also give prices that you may compare but beware of the photos, they can distort the guns' actual condition. Several other publications can help also, such as the Standard Catalog series (Smith & Wesson, Winchester, Colt, etc). These are very well written, gives the most accurate, excellent, and complete descriptions and some of the best pictures you could find.

[officer64]

The books you have been advised to get are good choices. Don't try to find any free references online. They don't exist. You can also get an idea of what certain firearms are selling for, if they have a market at all also, by going to places like gunbroker.com and see what the auctions are doing.

Something important to remember. These guides are just that, guides. One thing I was told and found out while I dabbled in classic cars and antiques is that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. One example is an older military rifle I was selling this spring past. The guide had it at a certain value but nobody was willing to pay that for it due to market conditions being what they became. I ended up getting a decent price for it on a private sale, but not what the guides said it was worth.

You will find that dealers use these guides to their advantage for trade ins and purchases for both c&r and modern firearms. They also tend to quote them for purchases from them as if the quotes were gospel. I'm not condemning them for that, it's a part of doing business and they have a right to make a buck. This is why I advise someone trying to sell a firearm to try to sell it outright rather than to a dealer or especially trade it in.

[Militant Bunnies]

Thank you all who posted. You've been a great help.

[shiloh]

Flayderman's is a great book for learning about guns and estimating values, but a book only goes so far. One other thing I'd recommend is talking to other folks you know or can find who collect or are familiar with antique arms, and ask their opinion of the dealer (if they know him) and the specific pieces for sale. Do you mind sharing the name of the dealer you are considering using? There are a lot of dealers of CW guns, and some are great, others are notorious for shady dealings. PARifleman on this forum knows a lot about CW era guns; I don't consider myself an expert, but I do have a modest Civil War collection (12 muskets, rifles and carbines) and have been shooting those old smokepoles for 20 years. If you want to post or PM me the name of the dealer I'd be happy to let you know of I've heard of him or had any dealings with him. You also might want to check the auctions and forum at www.antiqueguns.com (Rob Robles is a very well-known, highly respected and established dealer who runs that board) and the forum at the North-South Skirmish Association (http://www.n-ssa.net/phpbb/) not only to check out prices, but to soak up the members' knowledge of these guns.

As you undoubtedly already know, the three main factors in pricing an antique gun are rarity, condition and any provenance connecting the piece with a specific person or event. Springfield Model 1863 muskets are not particularly rare, but depending on condition, a fair price could range from $750-1,000 for a complete all original gun in NRA Fair to Good grade to $2500 or more for a mint example. Spencers are rarer, particularly in all original condition. An all-original Model 1860 Spencer in NRA good to very good condition could be anywhere from $1500 to well over $2,000; a particularly fine example or one traced to a specific unit or soldier could be several times that. Good luck in your search -- the 1863 Springfield is a classic gun and a great start to a Civil War collection.

[shiloh]

One more thing -- original 1863 Springfields did not have serial numbers. Look for a year date stamped on the barrel near the breech (likely would be 1864 or 1863), and on the left side of the barrel near the breech, look for the markings V P and a very small eagle's head. These are proof marks. On the left flat of the stock (other side from the lock), look for oval stampings with script inside of them -- these are known as cartouches, and are the governement inspectors' acceptance stamps. They often get worn off over the years, but if the dealer is selling it as a very good or fine condition gun they should be there. There may be other stamps on the stock -- state markings, for example, or rack numbers from when the gun was in storage or issued to various units.

Spencer carbines did have serial numbers, which may make it easier to trace a particular gun to specific units, and, on rare occasion, to specific soldiers. It's easier said than done, though, because the records for serial numbers are spotty.

[Al-Mumit]

www.surplusrifle.com

Might take a day or so to get a reply, but the folks there know their stuff.

[Militant Bunnies]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help one last time before I close out my subscription to this thread. I decided to take the advice of several people and purchased the Flayderman book. It should be here early next week.

I truly appreciate all the assistance, and thank you again.

Bunnies Rule!