Tips for the beginner reloader? (new gun inside too)

**.Kramer** · December 7th, 2010, 07:41 PM

Hey yall, just recently I got into shooting a lot (have been shooting off and on throughout my life, but never this much) and well..I couldn't help myself. I got myself an early x-mas present. Savage 12 F/TR in .308 with a Leupold 8.5-25 VX-3. It seems inevitable that I will be reloading my own rounds (very) sooner than later, and I have a question about my specific round. The barrel for my F/TR is a 1 in 12 twist..can any of you pros tell me what weight of bullet will work best with that? I was shooting 168 Sierra Matchkings right when I got it and they shot great right off the bat sub moa groups..but then I tried some 150s and it was terrible! I couldn't believe how far off they went even when I could have sworn the crosshairs were on dead center.

If you have any tips that would also be really helpful. I've done a lot of research on reloading and already have every step known by memory of how to go from unprocessed brass to finished product...just need a solid handbook (could also use a recommendation for one) and a set up!

Any advice you might have on reloading from experience will be graciously accepted as well!

Thoughts on the gun -

It's a very nice looking gun for sure. The laminate stock is definitely sharp and the 30 inch stainless bull barrel is very heavy (im not sure if barrels that are "stainless steel" are totally stainless steel, but just a note...magnets stick quite well to this one!) My first day shooting it was very well, and I think in the right hands this would be a real tack driver. I have a Warne Tactical picatinny rail and leupold mark 4 rings which are very sturdily built and the vx-3 has a varmint reticle that looks extremely sharp. I was really making an investment in my shooting career buying this gun, considering it costs at least 4x more than any other gun anybody in my family has ever owned (and we like our guns!) I got a savage because we have a few savages..one is a .30-30 that's at least 25 or so years old and it still shoots very accurate to this day after my pap NEVER cleaning it, never being serviced and never maintained - its a very hardy gun. So far I've had it for a couple weeks, and love the way it looks, feels and shoots. The accutrigger, while I feel could be improved, is not half bad and I like being able to change it with the little tool that came with the gun. It's not very crisp like a glass rod breaking, but feels pretty consistent. I would recommend this gun.

http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/...urrent=6-1.jpg

http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/...rent%3D4-1.jpg

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**BrowningBoy** · December 7th, 2010, 07:50 PM

Since you said the 168 Matchkings were giving you sub MOA accuracy with factory rounds just imagine what they could do with a carefully worked up handload. Just remember that different bullets will have different points of impact. It doesn't suprise me that the 150's were impacting in a different spot than the 168's.

Good luck and have fun! Reloading is a hobby in itself.

**dk99358** · December 7th, 2010, 10:45 PM

Lyman on the reloading manual. Good section for beginners and they use bullets from different manufacturers. If you get a Hornady manual (for example) all you get is loads for Hornady bullets.

Also the book called ABC's of Reloading is excellent for starters.

Dale

**max384** · December 8th, 2010, 01:35 AM

Welcome to the forum.

How many rounds of each bullet weight did you shoot? If it was only a few, it may just be a small sample size that led you to believe the heavier bullets were more accurate. Also, speaking of accuracy... You said the 168 gr bullets were sub-moa, but you didn't mention the precision (the true measure of how good a round is) on the 150s. Did the 150s have a good grouping (good precision), but were just off the mark? Or was the grouping bad as well?

If the 168 gr truly shoot as well as you say, go with that size. Don't fix what ain't broke.

Be very careful with believing you know every step from start to finish. Reloading is not incredibly difficult, but if done incorrectly, can have some very bad results. If you don't already own a reloading handbook, then you probably don't know each step as well as you think you do. Concerning load books, Lyman 49th is the best hands down IMNSHO. Hornady and Lee are about equal in my eyes as good second choices. You should always have at least two manuals.

Finally, when adding pictures to your post, copy the text in the image code box and your pictures will turn out like this:

**animalmother85** · December 8th, 2010, 06:00 AM

Two other things you should take into consideration is Ballistic Coefficient (BC) and velocity.

BC in a nutshell is how easy the bullet cuts through the air/is deflected by the wind.

Feet per second also helps when you want to replicate a specific round. See how fast the bullet is leaving the barrel then reffer to your reloading manual to work up a round that will get you to where you want. A chronograph is not to expensive. Don't worry too much about getting every round exactly to the nearest foot per second, but the closer the better.

Another thing is uniformity. It's the best way to eliminate all the variables. Propper neck tension, case length, neck uniformity, flash hole uniformity, everything. Some people will scoff and say one thing or another may not be that important, but I like my cases being as close to exact replicas of each other as possible.

www.ammosmith.com

check that place out for video tutorials.

**YBNORMAL** · December 8th, 2010, 08:25 AM

I can tell you from experience (being that I was a noob about a year ago), that you can work up a load that your rifle likes with just the tools that come with a basic reloading kit and a standard die set, and achieve sub moa, as long as your shooting short/er distances. Lets say 100-300yds (I haven't gotten to shoot further than 300 with my handloads yet, but at 300 I was well within sub moa).

I was able to do that, (and I am not ruling out the possibility that the planets might have been lined up just so that day) without a chrony to work up the load, or measuring case/bullet runout, or buying redding dies or anything like that. I have since gotten a runout guage and have been able to measure my rounds and see where the weak areas are in my process. Many people believe that the dreaded "flyer" is caused by excessive runout.

So the moral of this story is, you can spend a lot of money in the quest for the perfect load/perfect process. Or you can find something that works pretty darned good in your rifle at average distances and just never worry about all the subtle nuances that affect accuracy.

Me, I like to sit at the bench and tinker.

You have been warned

YB

**animalmother85** · December 8th, 2010, 09:45 AM

I was able to do that, (and I am not ruling out the possibility that the planets might have been lined up just so that day) without a chrony to work up the load, or measuring case/bullet runout, or buying redding dies or anything like that.

Yes, it is very possible to get positive results without a chronograph. However, how are you going to be able to calculate for elevation if you don't know how fast you are shooting? Kentucky windage at 1000 yards?

**.Kramer** · December 8th, 2010, 06:31 PM

I've shot probably close to 40 rounds of 168 grain MatchKings and probably around 60-100 rounds of 150 grain (I only get to shoot once every weekend, and I shoot a lot more than just this gun, trap shooting, etc.) When I was shooting the 150s and was rather suprised at how off they were I let my dad who's been shooting his whole life try it and he did not perform much better. They were somewhat precise, but not as precise as the 168's, and were not accurate. Im also not claiming I know everything about reloading as Im sure theres much to learn, but Ive watched people reload for likely hours on youtube by now and have general idea of the steps (tumble, lubricate, reshape/deprime, trim, etc. etc.)...so im not totally in the dark.

The reason why I asked what bullet weight will work best with a .308 1 in 12" twist is for a general starting point at what I should look at (there's some equation to calculate the most efficient bullet weight but I havent looked it up yet). Theres a lot more variables but I am beginner shooter, just beginning to reload and accuracy past 3-4 hundred yards is not where I'm at yet.

haha! Yes...I love to tinker as well. It's more of a sickness, than a disease.

**YBNORMAL** · December 8th, 2010, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by animalmother85

Yes, it is very possible to get positive results without a chronograph. However, how are you going to be able to calculate for elevation if you don't know how fast you are shooting? Kentucky windage at 1000 yards?

Yeah...... I wasn't saying that my loads are good to go at 1000yds. I was making the point to this gentleman that he can spend as much, or as little as he wants and still get decent results at short/er ranges. When new guys ask for advice on what to get and how to reload, I notice that sometimes they might not know what they may be getting themselves into. .Kramer did not say that he wanted to shoot F class or 1000yds, so I wasn't going to recommend to him that he go out and buy every expensive whoozit and whatzit.

YB

**SharpShooter88** · December 8th, 2010, 07:01 PM

Don't quote me word for word on this as I may be wrong but with the 1-12 twist barrel will probably stabalize a heavier bullet better. From my experience lighter bullets like higher spin rates....Correct me if I am wrong, it has been a while since I looked into it. I may be ass backwards for all I know...