Time for civilian oversight of LE

[ehidle]

http://www.nacole.org/index.php

Looks like a great idea.

[DCChris]

It's a good IDEA. Practical, no.

[ScaredOnce]

It's a good IDEA. Practical, no.

I'll agree it's a good idea, yet only almost as practical as actually believing a civilized populace can govern themselves by popular vote and due process to rules said populace has initiated and accepted. Wait... F, nvrmnd, Rome fell...

Well, how about we just start with the lowest men on the totem pole, the actual enforcers - the police. Then we can start to climb up the food chain towards oversight of their supervision, our elected officials, and see where it goes from there. Do you think this idea will work?

Hey, hand me another board, I want to get the Mayflower ready for our trip. Can you believe that they won't let me be Protestant here? [/sarcasm]


It's not a ridiculous idea that we'd want more oversight of local and state LEOs. You don't have to be a rocket scientist or demonstrate supreme moral fiber to become an LEO nor maintain one's role as such. They are permitted to carry on their abuse far too often. Unfortunately, not all citizens have the time/$$ to put overbearing ones in their place (though it's a good feeling). I'm trying to stray away form my deeply-ingrained cop-hating and be open minded. Maybe by creating a system where far more transparency yields accountability would be a possible good step...

Ohhwell, what do I know... I guess too much bureaucracy isn't the answer either. I guess there really is an inverse relationship between Safety and Freedom. F*S=k

[unclejumbo]

Fortunately, I've been on here long enough and have enough posts that most of you know I am relatively fair and balanced.

Citizen review board of police are notoriously bad. The reason is that you have a group of people untrained and essentially ignorant of police operations. They are then given the power to Monday morning quarterback situations where they have the benefit of days, weeks or months of deliberation. They can then jam up an officer for a split second decision made under the most extreme of conditions.

There is already significant oversight from the department hierarchy, the government that oversees that department as well as the feds with the justice department. There are also prosecutors, grand juries, and if need be, judges and juries.

In the Scranton shooting, those officer would hang. You can see enough responses from members on this board to make that call. Those responses are because those posting have never been trained in the 21 foot rule and edged weapons. They haven't been trained in when and when not to deploy a Taser. They believe that officers always have the luxury of time. Depending on the composition of the board, nearly any type of police action can cost an officer his career.

You may as well have civilian review boards for firefighting, sports teams, the military and what have you. Nothing better than a lot of people with no idea how the job is done telling you what you did wrong and what your punishment will be.

[tes151]

Nothing better than a lot of people with no idea how the job is done telling you what you did wrong and what your punishment will be.

In the trucking industry we call these people dispatchers.

[1861]

Fortunately, I've been on here long enough and have enough posts that most of you know I am relatively fair and balanced.

Citizen review board of police are notoriously bad. The reason is that you have a group of people untrained and essentially ignorant of police operations. They are then given the power to Monday morning quarterback situations where they have the benefit of days, weeks or months of deliberation. They can then jam up an officer for a split second decision made under the most extreme of conditions.

There is already significant oversight from the department hierarchy, the government that oversees that department as well as the feds with the justice department. There are also prosecutors, grand juries, and if need be, judges and juries.

In the Scranton shooting, those officer would hang. You can see enough responses from members on this board to make that call. Those responses are because those posting have never been trained in the 21 foot rule and edged weapons. They haven't been trained in when and when not to deploy a Taser. They believe that officers always have the luxury of time. Depending on the composition of the board, nearly any type of police action can cost an officer his career.

You may as well have civilian review boards for firefighting, sports teams, the military and what have you. Nothing better than a lot of people with no idea how the job is done telling you what you did wrong and what your punishment will be.

I tend to agree with you , then I see the Oklahoma trooper and the ambulance crew , then I'm not to sure .

[unclejumbo]

I tend to agree with you , then I see the Oklahoma trooper and the ambulance crew , then I'm not to sure .

But he is currently suspended and no doubt the subject of an internal affairs investigation.

[ehidle]

I think LE needs to accept the fact that they must be held to a higher standard, and must not make such egregious mistakes. That's part of the job, like it or not. If you're not up for it, you shouldn't be a cop, period.

What's worse is that LE thinks they have the "right" to shove people around. This could not be further than the truth. They are afforded the "privilege" of authority as being necessary to protect people.

Too often when LE shows up somewhere, it turns into an "I'm a bigger badass than you" pissing match to see which alpha-male can pound their chest louder. All too often, it's the kids that got picked on in high school that decide to become cops so they can take it out on everyone.

One would think that they could filter these clowns out a little better, but apparently LE is failing at their most basic charter. If they can't keep an egotistical simpleton out of the ranks in OK, someone who pulls over an ambulance for Christ's sake, then there is something very wrong with the system and it needs to either submit to strict civilian control, or lose its privilege of extended authority.

The self-checking systems mentioned aren't working. DAs refuse to prosecute crimes committed by LE. Politicians refuse to acknowledge police misconduct. If we have to go to a system where a civilian panel has to approve every traffic citation and review the constitutionality of all police-initiated encounters with civilians, so be it. You reap what you sow.

[ehidle]

But he is currently suspended and no doubt the subject of an internal affairs investigation.

And the fox sent to guard the hen house will undoubtedly find that he did nothing wrong despite the taped evidence of his criminal behavior.

[unclejumbo]

I think LE needs to accept the fact that they must be held to a higher standard, and must not make such egregious mistakes. That's part of the job, like it or not. If you're not up for it, you shouldn't be a cop, period.

What's worse is that LE thinks they have the "right" to shove people around. This could not be further than the truth. They are afforded the "privilege" of authority as being necessary to protect people.

Too often when LE shows up somewhere, it turns into an "I'm a bigger badass than you" pissing match to see which alpha-male can pound their chest louder. All too often, it's the kids that got picked on in high school that decide to become cops so they can take it out on everyone.

One would think that they could filter these clowns out a little better, but apparently LE is failing at their most basic charter. If they can't keep an egotistical simpleton out of the ranks in OK, someone who pulls over an ambulance for Christ's sake, then there is something very wrong with the system and it needs to either submit to strict civilian control, or lose its privilege of extended authority.

The self-checking systems mentioned aren't working. DAs refuse to prosecute crimes committed by LE. Politicians refuse to acknowledge police misconduct. If we have to go to a system where a civilian panel has to approve every traffic citation and review the constitutionality of all police-initiated encounters with civilians, so be it. You reap what you sow.

The self-checking systems are working just fine. Just because an untrained civilian feels something criminal happened doesn't make it so.

I like posting here because there are a lot of knowledgeable people. There are also a lot of people that are so ignorant of the law as to be scary. I have seen more head scratching, WTF? posts about "the law" than I can count. Those are the people that end up on civilian review boards.

The best part is that they really have no foundation in the law, the Constitution or the BOR. What happens if your town's civilian review board is anti-gun? Do you think they will blink an eye if "their" cops jack up every one that is open carrying? Fuck no. Crack their heads and toss 'em out of our town, we don't do that here. Make a complaint? Civilian review board says they acted properly...now go away troublemaker.

You said it, you reap what you sow.