Thinking of getting a FFL

**ReconLdr** · May 3rd, 2009, 06:13 PM

In the past few years I have helped a number of friends and family members find rifles/pistols and have always had to go to an FFL for transfers. My friend recently asked me why I don't just get my own FFL to make this process easier for everyone.

So my questions are:
1) Is it hard to get a FFL?
2) What is the process?
3) How much does it cost to get/maintain the license?
4) Is this a profitable side business?

I am not looking to get rich by doing this, but I would like to find a way to support my gun habbit...

**mojo** · May 3rd, 2009, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by ReconLdr

In the past few years I have helped a number of friends and family members find rifles/pistols and have always had to go to an FFL for transfers. My friend recently asked me why I don't just get my own FFL to make this process easier for everyone.

So my questions are:
1) Is it hard to get a FFL?
2) What is the process?
3) How much does it cost to get/maintain the license?
4) Is this a profitable side business?

I am not looking to get rich by doing this, but I would like to find a way to support my gun habbit...

1. As long as you get approved for everything, I believe the answer is Yes.
2. see this thread: http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/580...checklist.html
3) Not sure
4) depends on volume and pricing, I'm going to guess.

**Xringshooter** · May 3rd, 2009, 07:42 PM

Short answers to questions:
1. Not hard per se, just a lot of paperwork and hoops to jump through.

2. See below.

3. FFL, initial $200.00, $90 every three years after that. State License $57 (IIRC) every three years. Any costs associated with the locals. Insurance unless you plan on self insuring (varies by company, business location, inventory, etc.) Paperwork costs also need to be factored in (Acquisition/Disposition Book, receipts, etc.)

4. Profitable, depends on what you want to put into the business (time, money, etc.)

Now, if you are going into business just to be able to get guns cheap for yourself, the BATFE will probably not grant the license. They don't care if you sell guns at cost to your buddies, but if you're not treating it as a business they may say something. You will also have to have regular business hours and the BATFE wants to know what those hours are. And, don't forget the IRS. IIRC, if in business you must show a profit 2 or 3 out of 5 years or they will may something.

Here is some of what you will need:

PA Firearms license (get at the Sheriffs Office). You may not get this before you get the 01 license but they should be able to give you something to attach to your 01 application stating that you will get it as soon as the 01 license is issued.

Any local licenses and/or approvals (township, city, boro, etc. will explain what you need). Once you have these, attach copies to the 01 application to prove your are serious about setting up a business.

PA Sales and Use Tax license (apply on line at PA Dept of Revenue). You can submit sales tax collected via EFT if you so wish.

A storefront business OR approval for a home based business from the local government agencies (the BATFE would prefer a storefront, but will give approval for some home based businesses if the locals give their approval)

Federal Fireams License (and you will need to prove to them that you have or can get the above before they approve/issue the FFL)

Not a true requirement but you're looking for trouble if you don't have them:
Set up a business, either LLC, Corp, or sole proprietorship (however, with SP if something goes wrong they can take everything you own)

Business insurance (unless you are independently wealthy and self insure)

Then you have to start filing a PA business tax return (boy is it confusing the first time) and a federal business tax return.

Hope this helps.

**fingers80002** · May 3rd, 2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Xringshooter

Short answers to questions:
1. Not hard per se, just a lot of paperwork and hoops to jump through.

2. See below.

3. FFL, initial $200.00, $90 every three years after that. State License $57 (IIRC) every three years. Any costs associated with the locals. Insurance unless you plan on self insuring (varies by company, business location, inventory, etc.) Paperwork costs also need to be factored in (Acquisition/Disposition Book, receipts, etc.)

4. Profitable, depends on what you want to put into the business (time, money, etc.)

Now, if you are going into business just to be able to get guns cheap for yourself, the BATFE will probably not grant the license. They don't care if you sell guns at cost to your buddies, but if you're not treating it as a business they may say something. You will also have to have regular business hours and the BATFE wants to know what those hours are. And, don't forget the IRS. IIRC, if in business you must show a profit 2 or 3 out of 5 years or they will may something.

Here is some of what you will need:

PA Firearms license (get at the Sheriffs Office). You may not get this before you get the 01 license but they should be able to give you something to attach to your 01 application stating that you will get it as soon as the 01 license is issued.

Any local licenses and/or approvals (township, city, boro, etc. will explain what you need). Once you have these, attach copies to the 01 application to prove your are serious about setting up a business.

PA Sales and Use Tax license (apply on line at PA Dept of Revenue). You can submit sales tax collected via EFT if you so wish.

A storefront business OR approval for a home based business from the local government agencies (the BATFE would prefer a storefront, but will give approval for some home based businesses if the locals give their approval)

Federal Fireams License (and you will need to prove to them that you have or can get the above before they approve/issue the FFL)

Not a true requirement but you're looking for trouble if you don't have them:
Set up a business, either LLC, Corp, or sole proprietorship (however, with SP if something goes wrong they can take everything you own)

Business insurance (unless you are independently wealthy and self insure)

Then you have to start filing a PA business tax return (boy is it confusing the first time) and a federal business tax return.

Hope this helps.

Makes me glad I know people who put up with that stuff!

**ReconLdr** · May 3rd, 2009, 09:25 PM

[QUOTE=Xringshooter;721428]Short answers to questions:

Now, if you are going into business just to be able to get guns cheap for yourself, the BATFE will probably not grant the license. They don't care if you sell guns at cost to your buddies, but if you're not treating it as a business they may say something. You will also have to have regular business hours and the BATFE wants to know what those hours are. And, don't forget the IRS. IIRC, if in business you must show a profit 2 or 3 out of 5 years or they will may something.

QUOTE]

I would treat it as a business, like I mentioned in my original post. I am looking for a way to support my gun habbit. In other words, I wish to supplement my income so I can purchase more guns for me.

So I would have to have a store front or a sign infront of my house? I am not looking to open a gunshop. Maybe in the future (after I retire from the Army) but I would want to start off just doing transfers and related services. Is this possible or do I have to go the whole 9 yards? What would happen if I get deployed again? If I owned a full blown gunstore, I would have to close up with all of the inventory just sitting around, that does not seem like a good situation.

Thanks for all the input/advice.

**GoldWinger** · May 3rd, 2009, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Xringshooter

Not a true requirement but you're looking for trouble if you don't have them:Set up a business, either LLC, Corp, or sole proprietorship (however, with SP if something goes wrong they can take everything you own)

If you're not a sole proprietorship, if you buy any guns for yourself, you'll have to fill out a 4473 and do all the paperwork.

**Xringshooter** · May 4th, 2009, 07:44 AM

ReconLdr,
If you are allowed by your local municipality to have a home business, the BATFE will not say anything. They would prefer a storefront business but if allowed by the locals, they will accept that. Whether or not you put up a sign will be up to you. You can be in business and just do transfers/special orders. There are people that do business only through the internet. If deployed, not sure what happens, if family stays in place then shouldn't be a problem as the address hasn't changed. If after deployment you get a new posting, you then do a change of address (that is addressed in the paperwork you get from the BATFE and in the FAQs on their web site). This would be where you probably would be best setting up a LLC with you and the wife as the owners.

GoldWinger,
I checked into this before I formed my LLC and as explained to me by the BATFE compliance office, if you are set up as a single member LLC or a sole proprietor, all you have to do when you buy a gun for yourself is to show the transfer to your personal collection in your Acquisition/Disposition Book (the Bound Book). Then, you cannot sell the gun as a private person until you have owned it for 1 year. After 1 year you can legally sell it in a FTF transaction (if a long arm) to another PA resident with no paperwork. If you want to sell if before one year, you have to reenter it into the bound book and the sale would have to be in accordance with the federal and state laws. A handgun, no matter how long you have owned it has to go through a FFL (in this case, you) to be sold.

However, if the business is a any other type of corporation, and the firearm is being transferred to a corporate officer or director for other than business purposes, then a Form 4473 must be executed.