School patrol officers say they should be allowed to carry guns on the job

[WhiteFeather]

Gun free schools zones apply to Citizens and police, everyone except the people who don't care what the laws are. Still putting unarmed police in harms way is part of the hidden cost of gun control.

Please also hit the poll on the web site

Should school cops be allowed to carry guns?
Yes
534 (79.5%)
No
138 (20.5%)
Total votes = 672

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loca...1&pid=40957747

Spare the rod, district says
School patrol officers say they should be allowed to carry guns on the job

OFFICER MICHAEL Alvaro was in the right place at the right time to stop an armed-robbery on Feb. 25.

Sitting in his marked Philadelphia School District SUV on Olney Avenue near Broad Street, Alvaro said, he saw Tyree Pace, 15, approach three male Central High students with a knife and demand: "Give me everything you have."

Alvaro, 31, a school cop since 2001, called for backup, bolted toward Pace and caught him after a brief chase. But Pace, who has an extensive juvenile criminal record, didn't get cuffed without a fight. He spun and swung the knife at the officer, cutting into his bulletproof vest, Alvaro said.

Arraignment for Pace was scheduled for this morning, court records show.

With violent assaults on Philadelphia school officers increasing by nearly 20 percent in the last year, the officers and their union are pressing hard for the right to carry guns on the job. School and city officials have balked at that request in the past, and are reluctant to talk about it now.

But Alvaro — who was attacked one block from where city police officer John Pawlowski was gunned down Feb. 13 — is a strong proponent of the idea.

"We're in marked police vehicles, we're in full uniform, but we have no weapon to protect anybody," said Alvaro, who wrested a gun from a student outside Turner Middle School several years ago.

"Just by them issuing us a bulletproof vest tells us right there that they are putting us in danger," added Alvaro, a 1996 graduate of Abraham Lincoln High School.

Pace was charged as an adult with attempted murder, aggravated assault, possession of a weapon on school property and four other charges, according to court records.

At the time of his arrest, Pace was enrolled as a student at Community Education Partners, a school-district disciplinary school managed by a Tennessee company.


'In harm's way every day'
The union that represents the 400-officer school police force has for several years lobbied the school district to allow the roughly 100 patrol officers to carry guns.

"We put these guys out in harm's way every day with a vest, and we don't give them the equipment and the training to do the job," said Michael Lodise, president of the School Police Association of Philadelphia. "We're going to eventually have a casualty out here, there's no two ways about it with the climate out here today."

He noted that officers employed by universities in the city have guns, as do SEPTA cops, and that soon guns will be issued to animal-cruelty officers with the Pennsylvania Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Philadelphia School District officials declined to comment for this story. They issued a written statement contending that only one assault on a school officer in the last two years involved a weapon.

"These statistics do not justify the arming of Philadelphia school police officers....Furthermore, current Pennsylvania law does not allow the arming of school police officers," the statement said.

But Lodise said that that's not true.

"They're wrong when they said that," said Lodise. He said that the state's penal code gives school officers the power to make arrests on school property and the same authority as constables, who are armed.

Michael Race, spokesman for the state Department of Education, said that the Pennsylvania School Code does not address whether school officers can be armed.


A long-running debate
Whether to arm school cops is not a new debate. The officers' union raises the issue every time its contract is up for renewal, Lodise said. Former Mayor John Street and former city schools CEO Paul Vallas clashed over the issue, with the anti-gun Street winning.

Mayor Nutter's office did not immediately respond to a Daily News request for comment on the issue.

In many parts of the country, arming school cops is a standard practice. Of the six largest school districts, five employ armed officers: Los Angeles has 262 armed officers; Broward County, Fla., has 20 armed officers and 149 armed municipal officers; Dade County, Fla., has 172 armed officers; Clark County, Nev., has 150 armed officers. Chicago uses "hundreds of armed off-duty city officers," a spokesman said.

A spokeswoman for the New York City school district said that school officers and city officers who work in schools are not armed.


A growing problem here
Philadelphia had 234 assaults on school officers from September 2008 through last month, an 18 percent increase from 198 assaults in the same period a year earlier, according to the school district's Office of Climate and Safety.

Lodise, who has been with the school police for 35 years — the last 15 as union president — said that he supports arming only the 108 patrol officers, not the 292 officers assigned to school buildings.

If such a change were approved by the district, Lodise said, officers would not be permitted to have guns until after they had completed the education, training and certification requirements of the state's Lethal Weapons Training Act, or Act 235.

"As the police department does, we can have restraints and restrictions on the use and non-use of the weapons, that's all we're asking for," he said. "We don't want a catastrophe to happen here."

Patrol officers also should be issued guns, he said, because they enter school buildings alone at night when security alarms go off.

"When you go into these schools at nighttime by yourself, you never know what you're going to encounter, you have no idea," Lodise said.

Lt. Frank Vanore, a spokesman for the Philadelphia Police Department, said that Commissioner Charles Ramsey would support school patrol officers carrying guns if that's what the school district decides and the officers get the required training and certification.

"We do work well with them," Vanore said of school officers.

Alvaro, a former Air Force police officer, said that while working for the school district he has suffered concussions, a broken kneecap, a broken thumb and a dislocated jaw — courtesy of students, parents, trespassers and drug dealers.

Arming officers in what is one of the state's largest police forces should not be a difficult decision, Alvaro said.

"This is the perfect time — all these cops are getting killed for no reason," he said. "It's just a matter of time before one of us gets it. We're all in the same boat. I go to every funeral. All I'm asking for is for them to train us, equip us and protect us."

But Sheila Simmons, education director for Pennsylvania Citizens for Children and Youth, said that arming even patrol officers would be a bad idea.

"The problem is that they are still school police officers and they still have to go into schools, they are the first responders if there is an incident," she said.

"I just think guns and large groups of kids in an inside, enclosed area is a recipe for bad things to happen. All it takes is one bullet to hit one student and it would be a disaster."

[adymond]

Aren't those school police the reason teachers don't need guns? I mean isn't that the argument? FFS? I hate the employer bans on firearms. I feel naked without my pistol. Lately I feel naked with out two of them.

[vetter3006]

My co-worker knows Mike and we called him today but he was in court for the suspect with the knife he caught before. But if they go thru act 235 course then I say why not they should carry to protect themslves and teachers and other students. I seen some bad schools in the city and I know I would want to carry when inside.

[Dredly]

they should definately be able to defend themselves with force, especially in "troubled" schools, Some of these kids in their late teens are just monsters physically and psyopath's mentally, belong to gangs where they are routinely involved in fights and shootings, and are just very bad people.

I know I wouldn't want to get in a struggle with them. Give these guys guns and tasers, even the playing field a little bit,

Anyone remember the story a few months (or maybe a year or 2 ago) where a teach told a ghetto piece of shit to take off his Ipod, so the kid beat the shit out of him.. you want to go hands on with a kid like that? fuck no!

[gnbrotz]

Furthermore, current Pennsylvania law does not allow the arming of school police officers," the statement said.

Somebody better tell that to the 'School Resource Officer' at my son's school. He was about 3' away at my 5:00 the last time I attended an event there (during school hours) and he was definitely armed.

[toysrubi]

They had also better tell the officer if my kids middle school. He carries a Glock 21. He is also not act 235 he is a sworn township officer and his patrol is as school resource office (he runs the whole Dare thing etc)

[DaveM55]

Pittsburgh School Police are ACT120 and UNARMED.

The kids have more guns than the school police in Pittsburgh.

[Exbiker]

At Pleasant Valley we have a couple school employed "District Police" that are armed and I believe the head of security is also armed as he is ex PSP. The rest of the security is unarmed.
Many districts have a resource officer from a local PD that are armed and stationed at schools.

[BanginBonnie2]

Gun free schools zones apply to Citizens and police, everyone except the people who don't care what the laws are. Still putting unarmed police in harms way is part of the hidden cost of gun control.

Please also hit the poll on the web site


http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loca...1&pid=40957747

W F,

they don't need guns .. what for .. all those kids are angels .. there's no problem .. all they need is Midnight B - Ball and some other Programs .. if there is a problem it's probably my fault , or your fault .. for sure you must know it's not their own fault

Nope, no guns .. and no Cops either .. let 'em kill each other .. if I can't carry there, then My Employees shouldn't be permitted to either !

Funny, I didn't notice anywhere in the Story that the puke with the knife was Charged with School Zone Weapons Violations .. poor unfortunate .. jeepers, I hope we have some counselors available to help him thru this !

Just for giggles .. what would have happened had the Cop defended himself ?

... NAACP .. ACLU .. SCLC .. Neighborhood Riots .. Personal Lawsuit and so on !

Let them sleep in the bed they've made .. shoot 'em if they try climbin' into yours !

[ChamberedRound]

I personally don't think school patrol officers should be armed because I don't believe schools should have dedicated patrol officers at all. Having individuals designated as "patrol officers" in schools does nothing more than condition our children to be OK with a constant police presence in their lives. Having said officers armed further amplifies that "police state" mentality. Not only that, but having such a force in schools is a drain on the taxpayers as they now require a budget to operate.

I'd rather see volunteer teachers carry before a school system creates a security force. Showing children that responsible, law-abiding adults can defend the student body without it being their primary "job" or without the need for a formalized police institution is a much healthier environment IMHO. It's also cheaper for the schools, as the most the schools would need to pay for at that point are the volunteer's Act 235 certification, assuming the teachers used their own weapons. And for the cost of hiring/paying/outfitting a security detail, the schools could certify a greater number of teachers who could be trained to respond to a threat as part of school drills, providing better coverage and quicker response times.

I know this will likely never happen in most places, I'm just very uncomfortable with the idea of the police state mentality infiltrating our schools and making kids think it's OK for police to be around all the time.