Registering Upon Purchase?

[jmeekos15]

I was in a debate with a coworker over whether or not that when you purchase a weapon that you are "registering" it to you and the government now has knowlegde that you own said weapon. I disagreed with him and tried explaining that PA cannot make you register weapons unless specified by the type of weapon. He claims that when they do the background check that your name is put into a system and tied to the weapon you are purchasing.

So, my question is, are weapons you purchase "registered" to you when you purchase them, or is the background check merely for an individual record check to confirm that you can in fact buy that weapon?

[BimmerJon]

Registration in PA is illegal

That said.... The police break the law every single day by not destroying the sales records they receive during checks as they are specifically dictated to by law within 72 hours

The records are put into a system that the courts ruled wasnt a registry since it is "incomplete". Yet this system is used as a registry of sorts.

But no... Save NFA, you don't need to register.... Yet

[jerkin]

I was in a debate with a coworker over whether or not that when you purchase a weapon that you are "registering" it to you and the government now has knowlegde that you own said weapon. I disagreed with him and tried explaining that PA cannot make you register weapons unless specified by the type of weapon. He claims that when they do the background check that your name is put into a system and tied to the weapon you are purchasing.

So, my question is, are weapons you purchase "registered" to you when you purchase them, or is the background check merely for an individual record check to confirm that you can in fact buy that weapon?

It has nothing to do with the background check, the type of weapon isn't even mentioned during the background check. If you buy a rifle the only paperwork is kept by the dealer that sold it to you. If that rifle turned up at a crime scene they can run the numbers and follow it from the manufacturer to the dealer to you. Other than that nobody knows you have it.

Handguns are different, they are registered in Pennsylvania. They don't call it a registry, they all it a "sales database" but there is a form filled out and sent to the State police for any handgun bought in this State. The only way a handgun is not in their registry is if you bought it in another State when you lived there and brought it here with you or if it was gifted/inherited.

[jthrelf]

There is an incomplete registry. It's not a full registry because people are always moving into and out of the state and do not have a duty to fill out paper work when they arrive with a legally purchased firearm.

But yes all handgun sales are recorded.

You don't have to do anything special beyond the initial forms when buying a firearm.

[ForeverPA]

The only way you are not tied to your gun is if it was cash and carry. The form you filled out had the gun plus your name, address, social security and a dozen other identifying items. You really think this was an anonymous purchase?

[thundrr1]

The only way a handgun is not in their registry is if you bought it in another State when you lived there and brought it here with you or if it was gifted/inherited.

Or if you have a Curio & Relic Federal Firearms License and buy one using said license.

[JenniferG]

The ROS (Record of Sale) is an illegal registration scheme. If you buy a handgun in PA it is automatically registered with the PA State Police. Don't think it's true? Watch them run the numbers on your gun and they will know whether that gun is registered to you. It is completely illegal and they know it. They want to complete the scheme by registering your long guns too by the same method.

That's why the big push for Universal background Checks. They say they don't keep the information but if they didn't why the big push for these new background checks? It's because every gun bought today that goes through a check gets registered and private face to face sales doesn't get your gun registered. Hence the big push to register all guns.

[knight0334]

I was in a debate with a coworker over whether or not that when you purchase a weapon that you are "registering" it to you and the government now has knowlegde that you own said weapon. I disagreed with him and tried explaining that PA cannot make you register weapons unless specified by the type of weapon. He claims that when they do the background check that your name is put into a system and tied to the weapon you are purchasing.

So, my question is, are weapons you purchase "registered" to you when you purchase them, or is the background check merely for an individual record check to confirm that you can in fact buy that weapon?

The records of the background checks are to be destroyed by federal law after 48 or 72 hours. They do not know what kind of gun you are purchasing when the call is made. In PA, the FFL then tallies up the number of taxable and non-taxable transfers for handguns and long guns and submits the form(with $). Your name isn't on that form either.

The federal 4473 is kept by the FFL for 20 years, then he/she can destroy them. If he/she goes out of business, all <20yo 4473's and his A&D books are turned in to the ATF. It is against federal law for the federal and state government to use the 4473 to build a registry.

In PA there is a State Police form that is filled out for "firearms"(handguns with barrels less than 15", SBS's, and SBR's). That form ends up at the State Police Firearms division in Harrisburg and the info on it goes into a database of what "firearms" were transferred to who. This database is not completely compulsory, and only records the regulated transfers within the state. In a sense it is a registry, but it also isn't a registry because a true registry is compulsory and punitive. Many officers around the state often use it as a registry, and subsequently illegally seize guns from people when there isn't a connection in that database.

A true registry is something like what New York State has. There, you will go to prison if you are found in possession of a gun that isn't registered to you, and if you do not have a license to posses a handgun(even in your home).

[G17-5291]

If you buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL in PA there is no record of sale, just a background check form.

If you buy a handgun in PA you do 2 forms, the 4473 and the record of sale. The record of sale is technically a "registration" form, it goes to the state police and is kept on file.

No way to buy a handgun in PA legally without doing the record of sale.

[unclejumbo]

The ROS (Record of Sale) is an illegal registration scheme. If you buy a handgun in PA it is automatically registered with the PA State Police. Don't think it's true? Watch them run the numbers on your gun and they will know whether that gun is registered to you. It is completely illegal and they know it. They want to complete the scheme by registering your long guns too by the same method.

That's why the big push for Universal background Checks. They say they don't keep the information but if they didn't why the big push for these new background checks? It's because every gun bought today that goes through a check gets registered and private face to face sales doesn't get your gun registered. Hence the big push to register all guns.

I agree that it subverts the intent of state law. However, it's "legal" because the PA Supreme Court deemed it to be. Our laws are only as strong as those that rule on them.