hypothetical straw purchase questions....

**Last Resort** · February 2nd, 2010, 08:24 PM

So I went to purchase a mosin nagant rifle from Dunhams today. They won't sell it to me because the address on my driver's license is different from my current address. They weren't interested in my official "change of address form", or in taking my PA LTCF (current address listed) for ID. I was suprised to encounter such bullshit as I bought a handgun at a local gunshow with the very same driver's license and address back in December. Other then going through the process of getting a new drivers license, does anybody know of any other options? Would it be a "straw purchase" if an immediate family member decided they wanted to purchase that rifle, and just happened to give it to me as a gift? I don't know how big a deal this rifle purchase would be, as I believe the barrel on the 91/30 is over 3 foot long....

**tl_3237** · February 2nd, 2010, 08:52 PM

An example of an illegal straw purchase
is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr.
Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills
out Form 4473, he violates the law by
falsely stating that he is the actual buyer
of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates
the law because he has unlawfully aided
and abetted or caused the making of
false statements on the form.

Where a person purchases a firearm
with the intent of making a gift of the
firearm to another person, the person
making the purchase is indeed the true
purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
in these instances. In the above example,
if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
lawfully have completed Form 4473.
The use of gift certificates would also
not fall within the category of straw purchases.
The person redeeming the gift
certificate would be the actual purchaser
of the firearm and would be properly
reflected as such in the dealer's records.

From ATF Firearms guide p165

From your post this could be a straw purchse since its not truely a gift but a purchase by another in your stead. Also consider whose money is being used and whether there is any enumeration passed between you and the buyer.

You'd be better off trying to talk to the gun shop's management. Although they have the right to refuse the sale there is no legal reason they can't complete it. Either your updated DL (old DL + COA form) or LTCF should suffice for the photo ID requirement. I am presuming that the DL change of addr form is something issued or certified by the state and not just the form you filled out for filing.

**Last Resort** · February 2nd, 2010, 08:58 PM

Thank you for the information, that answers my question. I'm trying to avoid having to go through the process (and cost) of getting a new driver's license simply because Dunham's won't honor a PADOT change of address form. It doesn't sound like I have any other choices. Anybody know of any good websites that sell Mosins at good prices?

**39flathead** · February 2nd, 2010, 09:03 PM

There have been numerous threads posted regarding Dunhams, Dicks, Wal-mart, Gander Mtn, ect.... all doing exactly what you describe, and other such idiotic things like no Sunday sales and having to spell out the words Pennsylvania, County, ect on 4473's.

Your change of address card is a legal supplement to your state issued ID and the only reason to not accept it is due to an inept store employee being an idiot, or store policy itself being idiotic. You cannot get a new PA id due to change of address unless you have a CDL, IIRC.

If you just have to have the rifle, go back and ask to speak to the manager and explain that the state police will accept the card as valid during a traffic stop, so why won't Dunhams? I would call Dunhams corp office first and find out what company policy is so you can be prepared to argue if you so desire.

If it were me, there is a show this weekend in Monroeville and I would buy one there or I would call local dealers, surely one has a few Nagants in stock. Going this route will get you better service, I can pretty much guarantee.

**tl_3237** · February 2nd, 2010, 09:08 PM

In case you go back to talk with management - from the afore-referenced ATF guide p180

(D5) Is a Social Security card a
proper means of identification for
purchasing a firearm from an FFL?

No. A Social Security card, alien
registration card, or military identification
alone does not contain sufficient
information to identify a firearms purchaser.
However, a purchaser may
be identified by any combination of
government-issued documents which
together establish all of the required
information: Name, residence address,
date of birth, and photograph
of the holder.

The LTCF satisfies all of the ID requirements.

Also a DL with an old address satisfies all requirement except address. The state issued change of address proves the address. Thus the combination of these two documents also meet the ATF requiremnt for ID.

**tdyoung58** · February 2nd, 2010, 09:45 PM

Must be a DUH-nham's policy, saw them turn down a guy here at the Lebanon, PA store for the same thing

**donm** · February 2nd, 2010, 10:24 PM

Take your business elsewhere. Within the past year I've purchased three guns from a local shop and applied for my LTCF with my "Drivers License Update" card.

**Last Resort** · February 2nd, 2010, 10:28 PM

Thanks for the help guys. I definitely will take my business elsewhere. It's a shame as Dunhams has lots of rifles and gear. I won't be spending another penny there....