Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RLS View Post
    What about the counties that refuse to issue an LTCF to non-residents?
    This is just a giant hole in the LTCF process, because there's no mandate to accept out-of-state applicants. (Which is why many Sheriffs and Philly refuse to accept non-residents). The solution to that problem is, as always, constitutional carry or a change in controlling legislation. They're both equally difficult with the current governor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    Don't think there were any extra questions. Yes there was an additional $5, for credit card processing. Agree probably illegal, too small to make an issue over.
    Too small to make an issue of is something I disagree with, but I will gladly tilt at windmills if I know I'm on the side of justice and righteousness. However, it's hard to do anything unless people are willing to stand up for their rights. I don't blame people for just wanting to quietly live their lives, but it makes it hard to fix things.

    Quote Originally Posted by lakota View Post
    Is this for new applicants or renewals to? Myself and my wife both renewed our LTCF's at the Chester County Sheriff department. We printed the application on the website, filed it in at home, walked into the court house and walked out 20 minutes later with
    our new LCTF's.
    Some jurisdictions are allowing both permitium and paper applications. Some (like Philly) do not seem to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by mokoitis View Post
    Luzerne County offering Permitium (online) as alternative to mailed or dropped off applications. ... the new process was worth the extra $5.00 for the convenience & time it saved me.
    The problem is not that they changed their process, it's that they aren't authorized to charge more than $20, and some jurisdictions have also gone beyond the questions on the application as authorized by the PSP/state law. In my opinion, this is one of those areas where we should never cede an inch of ground. Every time we've let them do something they use it as an excuse to do something else that's frequently worse. Here, I think they need to follow the law exactly, otherwise when they get away with things it empowers jurisdictions to try implementing supplemental applications and interviews under threat of arrest (as Philly was doing prior to the GOA lawsuits).

  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Somewhere, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by astn View Post
    This is just a giant hole in the LTCF process, because there's no mandate to accept out-of-state applicants. (Which is why many Sheriffs and Philly refuse to accept non-residents). The solution to that problem is, as always, constitutional carry or a change in controlling legislation. They're both equally difficult with the current governor.



    Too small to make an issue of is something I disagree with, but I will gladly tilt at windmills if I know I'm on the side of justice and righteousness. However, it's hard to do anything unless people are willing to stand up for their rights. I don't blame people for just wanting to quietly live their lives, but it makes it hard to fix things.



    Some jurisdictions are allowing both permitium and paper applications. Some (like Philly) do not seem to be.



    The problem is not that they changed their process, it's that they aren't authorized to charge more than $20, and some jurisdictions have also gone beyond the questions on the application as authorized by the PSP/state law. In my opinion, this is one of those areas where we should never cede an inch of ground. Every time we've let them do something they use it as an excuse to do something else that's frequently worse. Here, I think they need to follow the law exactly, otherwise when they get away with things it empowers jurisdictions to try implementing supplemental applications and interviews under threat of arrest (as Philly was doing prior to the GOA lawsuits).
    I agree with your sentiments about constitutional carry. But doesn't "shall issue" in Pennsylvania also apply to qualified non-residents? My understanding is this is so, it's just that qualified non-residents are probably shopping around for the nearest friendliest issuing authority and so those issuing authorities who are not processing qualified non-resident applications or are giving qualified non-residents a hard time are not being challenged.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phila, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by astn View Post

    Too small to make an issue of is something I disagree with, but I will gladly tilt at windmills if I know I'm on the side of justice and righteousness. However, it's hard to do anything unless people are willing to stand up for their rights. I don't blame people for just wanting to quietly live their lives, but it makes it hard to fix things.

    The problem is not that they changed their process, it's that they aren't authorized to charge more than $20, and some jurisdictions have also gone beyond the questions on the application as authorized by the PSP/state law. In my opinion, this is one of those areas where we should never cede an inch of ground. Every time we've let them do something they use it as an excuse to do something else that's frequently worse. Here, I think they need to follow the law exactly, otherwise when they get away with things it empowers jurisdictions to try implementing supplemental applications and interviews under threat of arrest (as Philly was doing prior to the GOA lawsuits).
    I think the extra $5 goes to Permitium to cover their processing, but I am not positive about that.

    Went to pick up my license yesterday, and it went smoothly. There was a line with about a 15 minute wait. That was due to people not honoring their appointment times. Once inside, very fast. Took your photo, signed the license, printed it and done.

    Now what has changed;
    No more waiting in a crowded room to hand in your application, and then going back again to pick it up.
    Approval in less than 24 hours.
    No Postal Money Order. Credit card accepted.
    No fingerprints.
    No interview.

    I think the positives outweigh the negatives ($5 fee, parking is a problem)
    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

  4. #54
    PickingPA Guest

    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    I think the extra $5 goes to Permitium to cover their processing, but I am not positive about that.

    Went to pick up my license yesterday, and it went smoothly. There was a line with about a 15 minute wait. That was due to people not honoring their appointment times. Once inside, very fast. Took your photo, signed the license, printed it and done.

    Now what has changed;
    No more waiting in a crowded room to hand in your application, and then going back again to pick it up.
    Approval in less than 24 hours.
    No Postal Money Order. Credit card accepted.
    No fingerprints.
    No interview.


    I think the positives outweigh the negatives ($5 fee, parking is a problem)
    Never experienced ANY of that, EVER

    Fingerprints? Interview?

    Do you live in North Korea?

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Belly of the BEAST, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by PickingPA View Post
    Never experienced ANY of that, EVER

    Fingerprints? Interview?

    Do you live in North Korea?
    Close, he's in philly.

  6. #56
    PickingPA Guest

    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by icp4life162005 View Post
    Close, he's in philly.
    That’s absurd

    Reason #632,689

    As if I needed another reason NOT to live in Philly

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Phila, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    "And that's the way it was." - Walter Cronkite
    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Plains, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Couple of things...

    I'm glad I spotted this post, as I just made this post here: https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.p...14#post4618714

    ... regarding 6109 (g) violations through the new Permitium process.

    There is also something else I would like to call to your attention with relation to Permitium, and I don't know for sure, but I suspect there is something more sinister lurking behind it, i.e. data collection. I wasn't sure if I wanted to make a post about it yet, because some of it is speculation, and it's a lot to try to put together in a post for people to digest. I will try to lay out the basic details of what I believe to be true based on research I've already conducted.

    It appears that any time you access one of these Permitium sites operated on behalf of any Sheriff's office, which they are operating for counties throughout multiple states right now, your web traffic is first routed through a server belonging to Eli Lilly (the pharmaceutical company) I believe in Illinois. This is true no matter what Sheriff's office you look at for any county that's using it in any state, and no matter where you are physically located (where your traffic is coming from). Permitium itself hosts these pages with Cloudflare, and I could find no reasonable connection to why this traffic would always be consistently bouncing off of an Eli Lilly server. What's important to note here is that this only occurs specifically for HTTP traffic (all web traffic), but not other traffic, i.e. traceroute, ping, etc. This means that somewhere there is a specific configuration setup to route HTTP requests coming in to these Permitium pages first to an Eli Lilly server, and then to the web server actually hosting the content. This would include not only your initial visit to the page, but also the actual submission of your application form.

    I did a little bit of digging beyond that to see if I can make sense out of the connection, and I was able to find several of the actual signed agreements between a specific County and Permitium LLC, in which there was a clause within the data sharing/privacy portion of the agreement which allows Permitium to share all data collected with "any of our partners", with language something to the effect of "to aid us in the processing of requests" or something very vague like that.

    Obviously, on its face, this is concerning. I can't say for sure if my suspicions are warranted, or if there's any legitimate reason for this, but I think it definitely deserves at least a stronger look that perhaps a few lawyers and maybe a few more techies would be able to dig into more thoroughly.

    If you'd like any of the details about what I found and how I found it, please DM me, and I will be happy to provide.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Thanks for starting this thread. I will tell you my experience with the new system for obtaining/renewing license to carry. I am in Philadelphia, I have had license for over 20 years, I am on my 5th renewal. My current license expires 09/25/22. I am on day 2 of trying to renew my carry license via the Permitium website as instructed by the Philly GPU. I made multiple attempts to process a license renewal in the past 2 days. Each time I was only able to go so far in the application process before hitting this wall:

    "Permit Expired
    The eligible renewal period is within 60 days prior to your expiration date and within 180 days after your expiration date.

    If you have attempted to renew your permit too soon please come back and attempt the form when you are within 60 days prior to your expiration.

    If your permit has expired over 180 days you must submit a New License to Carry application."


    I was then given the option of selecting "New Application" or "Cancel". I cancelled.

    Today I called the GPU (to their credit they answered the phone immediately at 8:15am). I spoke to a woman there and told her the problem I was having filing for a license renewal. She told me without hesitating to go back and input the application as new rather than as a renewal. I didn't ask her if there was a known problem with the renewals but in hindsight it seems that she quickly had the response that I should process as a new application so maybe they are aware of a problem? She said that they would know that it was a renewal.

    So I went back to Permitium and processed through as a new application (nearly identical online form as the renewal) and I was able to complete as a new application after paying my $25.00. I received both an email and text confirmation for the application. Note: Along with required documents I uploaded a copy of my present license to carry to make sure they know it is actually a renewal.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Experiences with Permitium for LTCF?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaxbo View Post
    Thanks for starting this thread. I will tell you my experience with the new system for obtaining/renewing license to carry. I am in Philadelphia, I have had license for over 20 years, I am on my 5th renewal. My current license expires 09/25/22. I am on day 2 of trying to renew my carry license via the Permitium website as instructed by the Philly GPU. I made multiple attempts to process a license renewal in the past 2 days. Each time I was only able to go so far in the application process before hitting this wall:

    "Permit Expired
    The eligible renewal period is within 60 days prior to your expiration date and within 180 days after your expiration date.

    If you have attempted to renew your permit too soon please come back and attempt the form when you are within 60 days prior to your expiration.

    If your permit has expired over 180 days you must submit a New License to Carry application."


    I was then given the option of selecting "New Application" or "Cancel". I cancelled.

    Today I called the GPU (to their credit they answered the phone immediately at 8:15am). I spoke to a woman there and told her the problem I was having filing for a license renewal. She told me without hesitating to go back and input the application as new rather than as a renewal. I didn't ask her if there was a known problem with the renewals but in hindsight it seems that she quickly had the response that I should process as a new application so maybe they are aware of a problem? She said that they would know that it was a renewal.

    So I went back to Permitium and processed through as a new application (nearly identical online form as the renewal) and I was able to complete as a new application after paying my $25.00. I received both an email and text confirmation for the application. Note: Along with required documents I uploaded a copy of my present license to carry to make sure they know it is actually a renewal.
    The problem also could have been that you weren't actually within the 60 day window yet. July and August are each 31 days long. July 25th to September 25th is 62 days. If you had waited until July 27 or 28, you may have had a different experience.

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