General Aiming - revolver

[Peachfuzz]

hey everyone,

I went to the range for the first time with my son who is in a police academy. He owns a Glock 22 and I bought a Ruger SP 101 .38 so I could spend some time with him. He gave me the basics on stance, aim, trigger pull, etc... Man, what a humbling experience. Could barely hit the target from 15'. The only other weapon I have used was an M-16 as I am a retired MSgt from the USAF.

While the kid was putting 15 rounds all center mass and seemingly in the same hole, Das was having a heck of a time. I tried the left eye closed, no good. I'm right-handed and right eye dominant. Tried the right eye closed..no good, could barely hiot the bad guy target's hair. Stangely, for the last 10 rounds I kept both eyes open and all 10 shots were center mass! You would have thought I was celebrating a super bowl victory.

I have read on these pages that you should and can shoot with both eyes open and appearently this is the method that works for me. The question I have is that I am not sure of the proper aiming technique. I had success when the target was blurred and I was looking at the front site. Is the front site all that is necessary on these smaller revolvers?

[Xringshooter]

Target blurred, rear sight blurred, front sight sharp. This will get you the best hits. Your eyes can't focus all three at the same time so you align the front sight in the rear, then focus on the front sight. If you shoot best with both eyes open do it that way. I am right handed but left eye dominant so I cock my head a little to the right to align my left eye with the sights and keep both eyes open for my best sight picture.

Also to shoot better you must practice, practice, practice. Oh, also you must definitely practice.

[Peachfuzz]

Thanks for the info Ron. I am sure I will get plenty of practice as the boy knows that if I go with him I'll pay the range and ammo fees!

MSgt Ron!

[G21.45]

... I have read on these pages that you should and can shoot with both eyes open and apparently this is the method that works for me. The question I have is that I am not sure of the proper aiming technique. I had success when the target was blurred and I was looking at the front site. Is the front site all that is necessary on these smaller revolvers?

I've been a pistol instructor for a lot of years. During this time I've learned that there are no fast rules for determining how the other guy sees his targets. It usually takes me awhile to sort out the best way to recommend for a new student to start shooting.

I, myself, had vision problems as a child; and, the final outcome of constant pistol practice caused me to develop an ability to shoot with either eye acting as dominant. (I'm ambidextrous with tools and weapons, too: More accurate with my left-hand and faster with my right.)

There isn't enough information in your post to tell exactly what was happening? Where were your shots hitting? Were you grouping, at all? Were you firing doubled action, or single? Were you shooting one or two handed? Next time you get into a situation like this, I'd suggest that you swallow your pride, sit down, and bench your wrists against a firm support.

A proper sight picture holds the front sight in focus with the actual target slightly blurry. Long experience has taught me that some people shoot better with one eye open while others shoot well with both eyes open. I'll tell you this, though: Vision in one eye will be clearer than in the other. The big benefit to shooting with both eyes open occurs when you're tracking a moving target. Your depth of field and breadth of vision is greatly increased.

It's impossible for me to know if you have some sort of vision problem. Some people cannot focus on one object with two eyes; you may be one of them - I don't know. Some people need to spend time focusing before a master eye becomes apparent. Do this: Hold both hands up in front of your face. Bring them together until there is just a small opening between your hands. Now find a small object far away from you. Place it in the center of the hole between your hands. Focus hard on that object. Now, draw your hands toward your face while you watch the object. Whichever eye your hands end up in front of - That's your dominant, 'master' eye.

I can't tell from the information in your post whether you have a vision or a grip problem; you may, in fact, have both. I like the SP-101; my wife carries one that I picked out for her. You need to start practicing, though, with something larger. My wife's 101 has a 3" barrel; and she's learned how to be remarkably accurate with it; but, then again, I'm standing right behind her whenever she practices.

Have you got another pistol with, at least, a 4" barrel?

The basics of grip: You may have, 'come on' with the last 10 rounds simply because you suddenly adjusted your grip. Basically, the more control you have over the pistol's backstrap, the better you're going to shoot. Pistols are always managed VERTICALLY; if you inadvertently apply side pressure to the grip you're going to shoot off. How you press the trigger is a key factor. Make contact with the middle of the pad just in front of the distal joint. (first joint) Lightly press the trigger straight back; the break should come as a, 'surprise' - and here's what makes me a better than average instructor - while your brain and eye are focused, intently, on the target.

Don't allow your emotions to break your, 'target focus' as the trigger releases. Stay focused on the target and you'll be able to avoid mistakes like flinching or twisting the muzzle this way or that. Bad trigger habits require conscious thought. When you're focused on the target the way you should be, the physical energy to flinch or twist simply won't be there!

If you're shooting one handed, then, you'll need to carefully control pressure on the frame's backstrap. If you're shooting two-handed, you'll need to hold the pistol fairly loose in your gun hand; and apply STRONGER straight back and straight downward pressure with your support hand. I can always tell how a student is doing by watching how the muzzle, 'flips'. The better the distribution of hand strength between the two hands, the less the muzzle will flip and the more control the shooter will demonstrate over the pistol.

(Watch any of the pro shooters and you'll see what I'm talking about! Your stance should be a predominant isosceles. I find that I'm most comfortable when my strong side foot is slightly withdrawn.)

Finally, if you want to save 1,000's of rounds of missed shots and wasted ammunition, go out and buy yourself some A-Zoom snap caps. 15 minutes of dry firing a day will work wonders for you. If I can, I'll start each range session this way - Believe me, dry firing shows you the little things you're doing wrong that cause you to, otherwise, miss a lot! When you practice use cheap (Wal-Mart) ammo; and save the really, 'hot stuff' for self-defense. We use Blazers by the case!

Good luck to you!

[Peachfuzz]

Thanks G21.45. Here's some additional info on my first time at the range. My Sp101 is 2.25 barrel. I was firing mostly singe-action with a two-handed grip.

I wear glasses and I have 20-20 corrected vision so I don't think that was the problem. My shots were for the most part going high, and in some case missing the target entirely. I think I am pulling rather than squezzing the trigger gently. My son tells me that I am anticipating the recoil.

I think it is just a matter of finding a consistent stance and grip, and put in the practice. The Sp is the only pistol I have, but I was accurate when I shot my son's Glock 22.

[Thekatar]

I am no means an expert on shooting revolvers.

Front sight focus is essential. Trigger control is also essential. Trigger control is easy in single action mode, but more of a challenge when shooting double action. Both eyes open is the best way to go, but some individuals can't get used to it.

Dry fire practice, focusing on the front sight and pressing through on a double action trigger will get you where you want to be.

[bloomautomatic]

One of the biggest problems I've seen with people missing the target is flinching. To determine if you're doing this, try the "ball and dummy" drill. Have your son load the cylinder with a mix of live and fired ammo and hand it to you. Line up the sights and shoot just like normal. You won't know if it's going to be a live round or not. When you squeeze the trigger and the gun doesn't go bang, but the gun moves up or down or wherever, you know you have a problem.

Dry firing with snap caps is a great aid as well, but if someone has a flinch from anticipating recoil or noise, it's not the same.

Vince

[G21.45]

Thanks G21.45. Here's some additional info on my first time at the range. My Sp101 is 2.25 barrel. I was firing mostly singe-action with a two-handed grip.

I wear glasses and I have 20-20 corrected vision so I don't think that was the problem. My shots were for the most part going high, and in some case missing the target entirely. I think I am pulling rather than squezzing the trigger gently. My son tells me that I am anticipating the recoil.

I think it is just a matter of finding a consistent stance and grip, and put in the practice. The Sp is the only pistol I have, but I was accurate when I shot my son's Glock 22.

Ahh! Good information. Yup, your son is correct. You're flexing the tendons in your lower arm, and bearing down hard on the grip just before the gun goes off. This is subtle because only the smallest of motions will throw you way off at any distance. This is a form of, 'lemon squeezing'. Take a more front-to-back grip on the gun. Imagine that there is a, 'sweet spot' at, about, the middle of the backstrap. Focus your muscle energy on that spot. You need to transfer your concept of grip into a strictly vertical plane of reference. When you do this it feels like you're bearing straight down on the backstrap.

When my wife doesn't practice enough with her 3" SP-101, I'll use a, 'ball & dummy' drill on her by loading either 2 and 3, or 3 and 2. If you've got a 357, use either Blazers (Which are weak 357's) or 38 special for practice. You really do need a longer barrel to practice with, though. I have reservations about using single action fire in a revolver like this, too. I won't let my wife do it! I teach her just like Jim Cirillo used to recommend: Don't, 'stage' the trigger. Pull smoothly all the way through while watching the front sight. Maintain trigger contact by letting the pressure of the trigger's return spring push your finger forward for the next shot. (Do not take your finger off the trigger!) The only time I'll let her revert to cocking the hammer - Yes, I made sure she bought a revolver with a hammer spur - is when the target is beyond 10 yards.

Other things you can do to get yourself, 'on paper' and centered include: starting in close at 3-5 yards. See where you're hitting and what corrections you have to make before moving back to 7.5 yards. When your groups are reasonably tight at 7.5 move back to 10 or 12 yards. If I'm firing more than 100 rounds, I'll move further back to 16 yards - Which is, about, as far as I shoot pistol nowadays. I used to do a lot of 25 yard single action postal shooting, got thoroughly bored, and stopped.

I usually plan a range session around 100-150 rounds of ammo. It's kind of like an, 'accordion' to me. I start shooting, as above, by moving back; then, I finish shooting by moving forward again. I had to do this with pistol because a few years ago I had heart problems and had to, literally, learn how to handle firearms all over again. (It's OK, though, I've finally managed to work myself most of the way back.)

You're correct; this seems to be more of a grip rather than a vision problem. The fact that you're able to, 'come on' says a lot for you. (Regular practice!) You know about this chart for right-handed pistol shooters, yes!

[markheck1]

I used to do a lot of 25 yard single action postal shooting, got thoroughly bored, and stopped.

Now I don't care who you are...that's funny right there.

Not meaning to make fun of you, well..maybe I am....but it was funny

Those sound like really good points....
Q.... how much does eye dominance affect pistols....i like a previous poster am very left eye dominant, but right handed....I seem to shoot ok, but not great...of course I don't practice enough....


ETA And what is the reason for moving closer when you finish? I seem to find myself shooting at stange distances and nearly impossible shots...well for me anyway....just to have fun. Thanks in advance!!

[Chazman321]

Come out Thursday to Castlewood Rod and Gun around 6pm, we'll get the kinks worked out...