Inheriting a handgun?

[BandanaBandit1]

Heres my question;

I have a grandparent who lived in CA who recently passed away and in their possession had two handguns. I am not able to fly out and get them directly so they are going to have to be shipped to me (from CA to PA). Do these have to go to a dealer and have them transferred to me or can I have them shipped directly to me since they would be from a direct relative who has willed them to me? I know in PA you dont have to have them transferred from grandparent to granchild but I dont think that applys once it takes place between 2 states (out of state lines). What should I do about this? Thanks.

[rmagill]

I am not sure how all of the laws would work on this one.

However, seeing how this is going across the country and how different CA's laws are from PA, I would want the paper trail. It's probably not a bad idea to have a FFL in CA ship it to your FFL in PA.

This just strikes me as one of those things that could come back and bite you down the road without the paper trail.

[Dasbalddog]

From my recent study,

You can have them shipped directly to you under one condition only.

THEY ARE MENTIONED DIRECTLY AND IMPERIOUSLY IN THE WILL TO YOU.

If make, model, serial and YOUR name are not expressly linked.... Then it needs to go to an FFL.

It can't say "my grandson" or "my handguns".


For the record, I am not a lawyer, this is just my understanding after researching this issue extensively last year.

[tl_3237]

Heres my question;

I have a grandparent who lived in CA who recently passed away and in their possession had two handguns. I am not able to fly out and get them directly so they are going to have to be shipped to me (from CA to PA). Do these have to go to a dealer and have them transferred to me or can I have them shipped directly to me since they would be from a direct relative who has willed them to me? I know in PA you dont have to have them transferred from grandparent to granchild but I dont think that applys once it takes place between 2 states (out of state lines). What should I do about this? Thanks.

If they are coming to you via an estate distribution (you were a intestate or bequested beneficiary) there is no need under Federal or Pa law to involve a dealer (ref 18 USC 922(a)(5)(A) (a)(3)(A) and 18 Pa CSA 6115). That being said, the issue actually is more with the method of getting the firearms to you as the most likely shippers (UPS and FedEx) require that an FFL be on at least one end of a shipping.

Your options:

1. find a carrier that doesn't require an FFL;
2. have an FFL in CA ship them directly to you from the executor;
3. have the executor ship them directly to a Pa FFL;
4. CA FFL to Pa FFL;
5. go to CA and pick them up your self and return them to your Pa residence.

BTW - it doesn't matter if there was a familial relationship with the deceased. The above applied to estate distribution between any estate and any person.

[tl_3237]

From my recent study,

You can have them shipped directly to you under one condition only.

THEY ARE MENTIONED DIRECTLY AND IMPERIOUSLY IN THE WILL TO YOU.

If make, model, serial and YOUR name are not expressly linked.... Then it needs to go to an FFL.

It can't say "my grandson" or "my handguns".


For the record, I am not a lawyer, this is just my understanding after researching this issue extensively last year.

Citations?

[knight0334]

Pennsylvania and federal law doesn't prohibit receiving the gun directly from the estate if you were named in the will(bequest) or receive it via inheritance due to being a surviving heir(intestate succession). The surviving heir issue is dependent on who is before you though. Spouses and children get first claim. If no surviving spouse or children, then it goes to certain other heirs in a specific order. If there is someone in that order before you, you probably dont have a claim to them via intestate succession - thus would need a FFL to complete the transfer.


California's law is really goofy on this. It it probably best to have the guns shipped to a FFL in PA from a FFL in CA just to avoid CA's asinine laws.

[DavidTM]

Pennsylvania and federal law doesn't prohibit receiving the gun directly from the estate if you were named in the will(bequest) or receive it via inheritance due to being a surviving heir(intestate succession).

Where do you get this stuff from?

I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty certain that the executor of the estate is responsible for following all laws in the handling of estate affairs. Accordingly, if the specific bequest of said handgun was to an individual that is by law, not allowed to take possession of a handgun, how would the Executor have any first hand knowledge of this without having the handgun transferred through a Pennsylvania FFL agent?

Then, all the Executor would need to do is follow the law as to shipping the said handgun from the state where it's located, to Pa.

Now, if the said individual was not permitted to receive said handgun, then I would think said handgun would either be returned to the executor, and the executor would consult with a competent counsel for further direction on the matter.

Again, I'm no lawyer.....but that seems logical to me.

Dave

[Dasbalddog]

Citations?

Hard law, nothing but 922.A.5.

Having spoken to two attorneys on my issue, they strongly suggested to me that the only clear cut case of legality is if both the item (including serial number if possible) and the recipient be clearly documented in the will.

Their reasoning was, if the ATF EVER wanted to pick on you, they could claim that you weren't the intended recipient or you received an unintended firearm.

I chose to have the weapons transferred as the Will listed the weapons clearly but only said that they should be given "to who may best be suited to maintain and enjoy them".... It was decided that I should receive... But as the transfer cost me shipping plus $40 for all four long guns... I just had them transferred.


Sorry, did not mean to be quite so definite. The ambiguity of 922 just leads me to the side of caution. I wouldn't give the ATF the slightest opportunity to be over zealous.

[knight0334]

Where do you get this stuff from?

I'm no attorney, but I'm pretty certain that the executor of the estate is responsible for following all laws in the handling of estate affairs. Accordingly, if the specific bequest of said handgun was to an individual that is by law, not allowed to take possession of a handgun, how would the Executor have any first hand knowledge of this without having the handgun transferred through a Pennsylvania FFL agent?

Then, all the Executor would need to do is follow the law as to shipping the said handgun from the state where it's located, to Pa.

Now, if the said individual was not permitted to receive said handgun, then I would think said handgun would either be returned to the executor, and the executor would consult with a competent counsel for further direction on the matter.

Again, I'm no lawyer.....but that seems logical to me.

Dave

An heir doesn't receive the guns from the executor. The heir receives the guns from the estate. The executor only acts to fulfill the obligations of the estate. The executor could be in hot water though for facilitating things if a prohibited person receives the gun. A FFL transfer is always the best legal means to do things, but it isn't necessary.


http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...ms-prohibited/

18 Pa.C.S. § 6115: Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited

(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).
(ii) The person who receives the firearm is exempt from licensing.
(iii) The person who receives the firearm is engaged in a hunter safety program certified by the Pennsylvania Game Commission or a firearm training program or competition sanctioned or approved by the National Rifle Association.
(iv) The person who receives the firearm meets all of the following:
(A) Is under 18 years of age.
(B) Pursuant to section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor) is under the supervision, guidance and instruction of a responsible individual who:
(I) is 21 years of age or older; and
(II) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms).
(v) The person who receives the firearm is lawfully hunting or trapping and is in compliance with the provisions of Title 34 (relating to game).
(vi) A bank or other chartered lending institution is able to adequately secure firearms in its possession.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 (relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105.
(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another in one's dwelling or place of business if the firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of business.
(4) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the relinquishment of firearms to a third party in accordance with 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[D10]

An heir doesn't receive the guns from the executor. The heir receives the guns from the estate. The executor only acts to fulfill the obligations of the estate. The executor could be in hot water though for facilitating things if a prohibited person receives the gun. A FFL transfer is always the best legal means to do things, but it isn't necessary.

^^^
This......