Interesting experience I had...

[SgtStreb]

Gather round kids it's story time...

So a few days ago I was in one of my towns local watering holes. I just happened to be carrying my .357 Magnum. Now before everyone crams some rehearsed gun safety quotes down my throat, let me interject that I was not drinking. So anyway, I was in the bar for 2 hours. After a number of Diet Cokes I needed to use the restroom. As I walk out of the bathroom, another patron walks in. As I pass him I become aware that my shirt caught my holster and my gun was exposed. I quickly turned my gun side away from the crowd, fixed my shirt, and went back to playing the Megatouch machine with my wife. Roughly 5 minutes later, a Pitcairn cop walks in and calls out someone's name. That person answers and the cop proceeds to escort him to the kitchen.

At this point I assumed that the cop was serving a warrant. This is a pretty common occurrence in Pitcairn bars.

So anyway, 5 more minutes go by and I'm still playing the Megatouch machine with my wife, blissfully unaware of what is about to happen.

Out of nowhere I feel a hand grab my gun and a voice by my right ear says "Don't Move!" Instinct kicks in and I'm about to jab my right elbow backwards when I hear the familiar sound of a police dispatcher in my ear. Now realizing that the person who grabbed my gun is a cop, I put my hands on the table. The cop asks me the dumbest question in the world ("What is the weapon for?" Apparently firearms training is a little lax in this town.) I inform him that I have a CCW permit.

So he escorts me outside, holding my gun the whole time. Outside I'm met by 3 more cops. I'm placed against the wall, frisked, and my gun is removed. The cop nearly ripped my pants off before I told him it was a double-retention holster. After checking my permit and running the serial number on my gun, they give me a stern talking-to and drive away. Apparently the guy I thought was getting arrested saw my gun and called the cops.

Now I have a few points to make:

1. Regardless of whether or not it is a "good idea," there is absolutely no law in Pennsylvania that makes it illegal to posses a firearm in a bar, especially if you're not drinking.

2. The bar I was in was the only bar open at the time. It has repeatedly had issues with violence, hence why I had my gun on me.

The thing I would like to point out is that working law enforcement in the private sector, I've dealt with situations like this on many occasions. I therefore have no problem with how the police handled this situation. What I do have a problem with however, is that the cop came up behind me and grabbed my gun WITHOUT EVER IDENTIFYING HIMSELF AS A POLICE OFFICER!!!!! If his radio hadn't squawked in my ear at that exact moment, this would have easily turned into a situation where either he or I would have gotten shot. He was quick to justify his actions by saying "We don't know if you're a criminal or not." Well, if you grab my gun and I can't see you, I don't know if you're a cop or a drunken idiot with a death wish.

If you've taken the time to read all this, thank you. This has been irritating me for a couple weeks and I needed to vent this to people who would understand what I'm saying.

[jcabin]

So did this happen the other day or a few weeks ago?
In PA we have a LTCF not a CCW (concealed cattle waffle).

I'd have a problem with a cop walking up and placing his hands on my gun.
It's a fucking stupid way to start an encounter.
And if I were a bad guy, it would be a one way ticket to getting your head popped.

[SgtStreb]

It was literally a few weeks ago. I often use "the other day" conversationally to refer to any period of time in the past. Plus it's 3AM so everything is a little fuzzy.

Your correction of CCW to LTCF is duly noted.

The detail I forgot to mention is that part of my "stern talking-to" involved the cop telling me to leave my gun in my car.

I know that there are mixed feelings on this, but personally I feel that placing my gun out of my view and control is just plain irresponsible. Especially when I'd be trusting that its secure behind auto glass and a flimsy glove-box lock.

[YllwFvr]

Did the officer take the pistol from you after asking permission? Did you give it?
I don't think they can just take your property, even a firearm, without suspicion a crime has been committed. Of course when he went to remove it and your didn't protest I guess that could have been taken as a kind of permission.
I don't think I would have taken that well at ALL. Did they ask if you had been drinking? It's never a bad idea to sit down after a run in with the cops and write it all down as accurately and as detailed as you can. In case it may later be required for a lawsuit or defense.
It doesn't take much time for something to lose it's sharp edges and you can no longer be 100% certain if it happened this or that way, or did the guy word it with such and such tone of voice.
Well I can't say I'm happy to hear you had a negative encounter but it could have been worse.

ETA: You shot that reply off before mine was done.
I agree with you 100% about leaving it in your car. Not a good idea. I like to keep my firearms under my direct control. In the car is never a good place to keep it unless you have a means to secure it with a lock perhaps.

[uniballin]

One of the worst experiences I have ever read on this board...

thank God no one was killed. That officer needs a stern talking to by his superior.

[SgtStreb]

The simple fact that someone called 911 and that same person pointed me out was enough to substantiate probable cause. I would definitely agree that they overreacted quite a bit but it would be more of a departmental policy violation than an infringement on my civil rights.

[MostlyHarmless]

So did this happen the other day or a few weeks ago?
In PA we have a LTCF not a CCW (concealed cattle waffle).

I'd have a problem with a cop walking up and placing his hands on my gun.
It's a fucking stupid way to start an encounter.
And if I were a bad guy, it would be a one way ticket to getting your head popped.

Same line of thinking here. There is no possible distinction between a police officer "placing his hand on your gun for his safety" and a bad guy "trying to grab your gun to shoot you", if he blind sides you and simply places his hand on your gun without warning. Your elbow in his jar followed by your gun pointing right between his eyes (until you realize that he's in uniform) would be the perfect response for me.

Let's face it. Stupid people get shot. Stupid cops no less.


Jan

[SgtStreb]

And if that happened the other cops would have shot me on sight and sprinkled cocaine on me for effect.

[YllwFvr]

The simple fact that someone called 911 and that same person pointed me out was enough to substantiate probable cause. I would definitely agree that they overreacted quite a bit but it would be more of a departmental policy violation than an infringement on my civil rights.

I will have to disagree with that actually. This is why we need more inforrmed dispatchers. He has a gun? What Is he doing with it? Nothing? Playing a game hmm?
It is not illegal to carry a firearm and merely carrying one does not give reasonable suspicion to believe criminal actvity is present. An officer can respond but he should use discretion. Talk to the caller then observe you. Peacefully playing the highly addictive megatouch doesn't make you look suspicious.
The responding officer sounds like an ass IMO.

[SgtStreb]

The funny part is, one of the cops that responded was a Monroeville cop. I am a supervisor at Monroeville Mall Security. Once he realized who I was (which should have been obvious since my picture for my permit was taken while I was in uniform) their whole attitude changed, most likely because they realized that I wasn't some law-challenged idiot off the street. Truth is, I do almost the same job they do, I just can't stop and detain whoever I want.