Class 3 Dealer NOT to deal with: LH Arms Northumberland, PA

[Asmodeus]

On 11/8, at the Philly Nat Guard Armory Gun Show, I bought a short-barrel shotgun from LH Arms of Northumberland, PA. All of my transfers are corporate, so I simply asked him to mail me the signed Form 4s and I would send it off to the ATF with my corp paperwork, 5330.20, and a check.

I don't receive the F4s until today. It took them 10 days to mail me the paperwork (postmark is 11/18). When it shows up, the F4s aren't signed. there is a list of directions included which basically tell me to attach a check and my paperwork and mail it back to them

I call them and ask that they just send me a pair of signed F4s. Their response is that they don't do it that way because they have to check all the paperwork to make sure that it is done correctly. I told them that wasn't necessary, plus it would add at least a week to the transfer, and possibly longer, given that it took then 10 days to simply mail the F4s to me. They were adamant about doing it "their way."

There is no reason for them to have copies of my incorporation papers or anything other than the F4, which I presume they would copy before actually giving me the gun.

And it wasn't an issue of them dealing with a noob and the process of getting fingerprints, et al. they were aware it was a corp transfer; their instruction sheet had everything crossed out except 'send us a check for the ATF."

I told them I just want my money back (I paid cash for the shotgun). For some reason, they want the worthless f4s returned before they will refund my money.

Odd set of behaviors, and I would suggest not dealing with these people. Dealers who make up their own rules are not a benefit to the community.

I have bought literally dozens of NFA items and this is the first time a dealer required that I send all my proprietary information to him before he would sign the F4s; every other dealer just sent me signed F4s in the mail.

[liberty556]

On 11/8, at the Philly Nat Guard Armory Gun Show, I bought a short-barrel shotgun from LH Arms of Northumberland, PA. All of my transfers are corporate, so I simply asked him to mail me the signed Form 4s and I would send it off to the ATF with my corp paperwork, 5330.20, and a check.

I don't receive the F4s until today. It took them 10 days to mail me the paperwork (postmark is 11/18). When it shows up, the F4s aren't signed. there is a list of directions included which basically tell me to attach a check and my paperwork and mail it back to them

I call them and ask that they just send me a pair of signed F4s. Their response is that they don't do it that way because they have to check all the paperwork to make sure that it is done correctly. I told them that wasn't necessary, plus it would add at least a week to the transfer, and possibly longer, given that it took then 10 days to simply mail the F4s to me. They were adamant about doing it "their way."

There is no reason for them to have copies of my incorporation papers or anything other than the F4, which I presume they would copy before actually giving me the gun.

And it wasn't an issue of them dealing with a noob and the process of getting fingerprints, et al. they were aware it was a corp transfer; their instruction sheet had everything crossed out except 'send us a check for the ATF."

I told them I just want my money back (I paid cash for the shotgun). For some reason, they want the worthless f4s returned before they will refund my money.

Odd set of behaviors, and I would suggest not dealing with these people. Dealers who make up their own rules are not a benefit to the community.

I have bought literally dozens of NFA items and this is the first time a dealer required that I send all my proprietary information to him before he would sign the F4s; every other dealer just sent me signed F4s in the mail.

Sounds like you may have a control freak here. Why don't you just do a Form 1 and make it yourself? A good gunsmith can cut a barrel down and then you can trick it out however you want. I did two SBR's and they were a breeze, aside for the waiting. I'm currently transferring a M16 RR to my NFA trust and my dealer didn't hesitate to let me handle the paperwork once he signed.

[Asmodeus]

I know I can build one, but this one was done and ready to go. It should have been a simple process. The dealer choose to get over-involved.

[GunLawyer001]

Actually, the seller (transferor) is considered the submitter of the Form. That's why the approved Form is returned to the transferor instead of the transferee.

The usual practice is for the transferor to complete his portion, then give it to the transferee to get the required signature and complete the transferee portion, and add a check. After that, it can be mailed by the seller or the buyer, but it's the seller who is technically submitting the Form asking for approval to sell his firearm to the buyer.

I've heard horror stories from both sides. Sellers who use the buyer's checks for other transfers, buyers who sit on the transfer for months instead of completing the paperwork.

I don't hold it against the seller to keep control of Forms for which he's responsible.

[Asmodeus]

I don't hold it against the seller to keep control of Forms for which he's responsible.

I don't trust a dealer who has already proved that he can't process paperwork in a timely manner.