Transfering from AZ to PA

**noonxnoon** · January 30th, 2007, 10:43 AM

Hello All,

I am attempting to get two hunting rifles(pre-1970) which used to belong to my father(who died 20 years ago).

I was too young at the time to take ownership of the rifles(30.06), so my cousins have them( I hope they still do).

I am planning on flying to AZ to take ownership of the rifles and bring them back to PA.

Can someone here help me if I have to do a transfer in AZ, or one in PA?

Can I put the rifles on the plane as cargo? Can I mail them(to myself or a PA gun dealer)?

There might be original ammo with it, I gander that can't go on the plane.

I have limited time in AZ and I want to get all the logistics down to see the possiblity of getting my fathers rifles back.

Thanks for your time

**danp** · January 30th, 2007, 12:04 PM

All interstate transfers of firearms must be done through a licensed dealer in the receiving party's state.

There may be something in the law that changes circumstances based on inheritence but unless you can confirm that with someone (anyone here know for sure?) I would operate under the assumption that the rifles must be shipped to an FFL in Pennsylvania and transferred to you just like if you were buying a firearm from out of state.

These are laws (whether fair/stupid or not) that you don't want to accidentally break.

**PA Rifleman** · January 30th, 2007, 02:13 PM

First, have to done an internet search on this yet?

Whether you fly to AZ & pick them up, or the guns are shipped to PA makes a big difference.

If they're shipped, they'll need to go to an FFL since they're crossing state lines by a commercial carrier. I have heard of people shipping firearms to themselves, I wouldn't recommend this for a number of reasons. I would probably have them shipped to a Pennsylvania FFL for two reasons...first, it's much cheaper to fly the guns & stuff here once than fly yourself down there and back. Second, when long guns are transferred, PA does not record details about the gun, so the guns will remain anonymous. You will be required to fill out a 4473, although the 4473 remains with the dealer and again, the NICS system isn't concerned about the gun(s). Your relatives should be able to ship them, all you'll need is a cooperative FFL on your end.

If you're assuming ownership in AZ, you'll need to comply with AZ laws regarding intra-family transfers. That said, the transfer question should be settled before you leave and shouldn't be an issue afterward. Pennsylvania won't care whether you've had them for 2 days or 20 years. This will be the most expensive route, but if done legally, will leave the least amount of paper behind. And, as far as the legality of moving *your* guns through hostile territory, you should be protected by the "safe passage" clause of the 1986 FOPA.

As far as guns in luggage, many airline carriers will permit long guns as long as it follows their regulations & policies. This means not carry-on, locked hardside container and maybe a few extras. You may want to check on this detail before paying for tickets, as some airlines are more lax than others. Note that many have limitations on ammunition, so you might want to ship the ammo separately via UPS if there's a lot of it.

This is a common question posted on the rec.guns newsgroup, and due to the frequency of this question you should be able to get an idea which carrier might make a good starting point.

Also, I have heard that one or members of this forum may be lawyers, Rule10b5
comes to mind, there may be others.Consider bouncing this off one of them.

Here's some relevant reading material:
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=60

**noonxnoon** · January 31st, 2007, 12:29 PM

Thanks guys for your response.

I have searched around on the internet on it...and this site seemed the most concrete...plus we are all Pennsylvanians...

I found similar questions, but not everything was a match for my condition.

I don't have any problem sending something to an FFL/dealer...but I would rather go the plane route.

I'll look into flights and see how airlines are willing to ship.

Might mean extra cost to buy a new case(s) that is shippable.

I'll look into AZ laws to see if I got to fill out some form that maybe the airlines might want to see.

Seems AZ laws are more lax then PA, so maybe I can put the rifles on a plane and be done with it.

I'll check with Harrisburg to see what they think. The last thing I need to to cause an incident when I land...

I only want to spend a day in AZ to get the stuff, so I hope I don't have paperwork hassles that take days, etc...as I don't want to go back and forth...I am not that rich!

Shipping might cost a bundle due to the odd shape of the long gun cases...both rifles I think are scoped as well.

Maybe my biggest challenge is to reclaim the rifles from my relatives!

As things progress, I'll keep the board posted.

Thanks

**Xringshooter** · January 31st, 2007, 01:16 PM

If your relatives have the firearms and are going to give them to you without any argument, send them the money to ship them to the FFL of your choice. You can ship a long arm, in a case (locked) through UPS for $30 or less, including insurance. A non FFL in any state can ship to any FFL in the US with no problems through FEDEx, UPS, or the USPS (log arm only, no hanguns). FFL to FFL can ship any firearm, using any commercial carrier (not sure about NFA weapons, I haven't worked with them yet).

This would be a lot cheaper than flying down there and taking a chance with the airlines. The airlines will take them as checked baggage and ammo can be packed in checked baggage (a reasonable amount). The firearm has to be unloaded and the ammo cannot be in the same container. My concern is the baggage handlers at the airport, although the firearm cannot have any markings on the "bag" stating that it is a firearm, a long arm in a case is pretty obvious. Then; oops, missing luggage, we'll try to track it for you, in the mean time fill out all these forms and we will reimburse you next to nothing for the luggage that got lost.

Shipping to a FFL will save a lot of headaches and money. JMO.

Good Luck

**noonxnoon** · January 31st, 2007, 02:31 PM

Howdy,

Well, long story about the relatives...to sum up there was some estrangement...but my cousins that got it probably never shot it and probably didn't care for it and probably messed the scope alignments up.

I hope they haven't sold them...and I'll be willing to give them money for it, even though they belonged to my blood father.

I know my father used to hunt in Michigan with the 30.06 with my mother's father. I don't know if it is Mauser, or Remington, etc...but I do know they were of high quality and good optics.

I thought it might make it easier if I went there...said my hellos and small chat and them inspect the items and be willing to do all the legwork...as they might be afraid they are breaking the law shipping them, as well as they aren't too gun savvy.

They probably could eventually figure out the bolt action, but the spring clip will be beyond them!

I'll have to give a cold call about it and hell, maybe I'll get lucky and they don't want to see my ugly mug and will just send it!

Thanks for the info.

also to your point...I am a bit concerned about a 'lost' bag and the ground crew having a field day with it

**noonxnoon** · January 31st, 2007, 02:59 PM

An interesting site:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1188.shtm

It seems the airlines are quite friendly to sending firearms AND ammo in the checked baggage.

Looks like the TSA is the 'authority' on it.

Seems quite encouraging...only depressing part is looking at the cost of round trip tickets...

**Xringshooter** · January 31st, 2007, 03:41 PM

Interesting note in the TSA site about the ammo being able to go in the same container. It used to be that it had to be in a different piece of checked baggage.

**yobos4vr** · January 31st, 2007, 06:10 PM

first,tsa is not the authority on this, they are tasked with enforcing each airlines policy. i know i work for one. for example my airline allows checked firearms as long as they are locked in container, i.e. rifle in a hard case or a pistol locked in it's case then in your regular bag, we do not allow ammo to be in the same bag as the firearm. furthermore the ammo has to be in the manufactors packaging or other suitable packing. i.e not loose in the bag or in magazines. on top of that the ammo has to be below a certain weight and each plane has a max weight. so if it's 50lbs and the first 10 passengers each check in 10 lbs then no other passengers are allowed to take ammo on that flight. this falls under the dangerous good and hazmat policy. oh and just an fyi baggage handlers don't steal firearms!

**noonxnoon** · January 31st, 2007, 08:15 PM

hiya,

Well, maybe by saying tsa is the 'authority' was a bit strong...but I think they establish guidelines?

The link I attached did say at the bottom that each airline can modify the guidelines...

If I have to go the flying route...ofcourse I will contact the airlines to confirm it.

I was just happy to know that it isn't as difficult as I thought it was going to be!

But I thank you for your comments regarding this!

hmm...but I think I will double the locks on it and put a GPS on it