PA TO PA INDIVIDUAL TRANSFER

[ORPP50]

Purchasing a NFA machine gun from another non-FFL PA resident. I think I understand all the BATFE requirements but I need help regarding PA transfer laws such as need to use a FFL or NICS. Anyone have experience doing this or familiar with laws? Thanks.

[knight0334]

If the machine gun exceeds the dimensions of a "firearm" as defined under PA law - then you do not need to do PA's PSP transfer.

Examples:

1. a full sized automatic battle rifle like a M16, AK47, FAL, etc with a barrel 16" or longer and an overall length of 26" or more - no PSP transfer is needed, just the NFA tax stamp. Once you have your NFA stamp you take possession of the machine gun

2. a SBR sized machine gun(barrel less than 16" and/or overall length less than 26") or a machine pistol like a MAC10, UZI, etc - would require you to get your NFA stamp, then you would have to complete the transfer at an appropriate FFL to fill out the PSP's transfer form just like any standard pistol.

[ORPP50]

Knight 0334,

Thanks for info. It is in the less than 16" bbl rifle category. In this case would the FFL just charge for the NICS and normal transfer charge ($25 or so) or the $100 or more due to NFA status? Must it be a Class III dealer or any FFL? Thanks.

[knight0334]

That I cant remember.. Its been several years since I was involved in a private to private transfer of a NFA gun that fits PA's "firearm" size.

Hopefully one of the other guys can chime in.

[AdvancedArms]

Technically speaking an FFL cannot do walk in a person to person transfer on an NFA item......A transfer comes in and out of a dealer's bound book.

So in effect if he did a transfer the ATF would have a case against the dealer...for unlawful possession and illegal transfer.


Now the proper way would be person to dealer then dealer to person...but the result is double tax and increased time.



PA NEEDS TO EXEMPT NFA ITEMS FROM THEIR LAWS/REGS

[ORPP50]

18 Pa. C.S. 908 : Prohibited Offensive Weapons - this section seems to establish that compliance with National Firearms Act is all that is needed since the definition of Prohibited Offensive Weapon includes ALL machine guns - without reference to barrel length.

If still required to register a machine gun with barrel lenght less than 16", Section 18 Pa. C.S. 6111 Sale or Transfer of Firearms - paragraph (c) Duty of other person (non FFL) "Any person who is not a licensed ... who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of a licensed ... OR COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE ...

Has anyone actually done this - go to their Sheriff's office to legally transfer between two non FFL parties?

[forceinPA]

ALSO, even if it is a full size ak,m16 ect. you still need to do the 4473 form. A SBR requires both If It meets the requirment and they must be done by a sot dealer. the tax is free on your end too.

[liberty556]

If the machine gun exceeds the dimensions of a "firearm" as defined under PA law - then you do not need to do PA's PSP transfer.

Examples:

1. a full sized automatic battle rifle like a M16, AK47, FAL, etc with a barrel 16" or longer and an overall length of 26" or more - no PSP transfer is needed, just the NFA tax stamp. Once you have your NFA stamp you take possession of the machine gun

2. a SBR sized machine gun(barrel less than 16" and/or overall length less than 26") or a machine pistol like a MAC10, UZI, etc - would require you to get your NFA stamp, then you would have to complete the transfer at an appropriate FFL to fill out the PSP's transfer form just like any standard pistol.

This PSP requirement is ridiculous and is simply not logical. If a person went through the process with the ATF and was approved, why would the barrel length of a Title II weapon matter to the PSP? If I have a RR with a 16" barrel transferred to me, then I go home and put on a 11.5" barrel, the PSP would be unaware. Would I then be in possession of a pistol without the PSP transfer, documentation, (non-registration)-registration with the state? It would seem to me that the state could argue that all AR's, NFA or not, are pistols because of their modularity. Essentially, PA is saying the PSP pistol transfer is just as important as the NFA transfer for a MG with barrels under 16", but only at the moment of actual transfer.

[ungawa]

Some have suggested you can put a long barrel on it prior to transfer. Ask a lawyer before you try something like this. If you consider the long barrel to be a permanent change (you throw away the short barrel) then you should send ATF a letter so they can update their records.

It is kind of silly since you can change the length of a MG barrel at will. It's probably one of those things that wasn't given a lot of thought in drafting the UFA.

[liberty556]

Some have suggested you can put a long barrel on it prior to transfer. Ask a lawyer before you try something like this. If you consider the long barrel to be a permanent change (you throw away the short barrel) then you should send ATF a letter so they can update their records.

It is kind of silly since you can change the length of a MG barrel at will. It's probably one of those things that wasn't given a lot of thought in drafting the UFA.

What if the RR lower did not have an upper on it when transferred? PA needs to add a clause to its definition of a "firearm" that excludes all NFA weapons and that would make this process better.

It's difficult for me to acknowledge this BS!