Selling a Long Gun? Why do YOU want a bill of sale?

[Mtbkski]

I was wondering something after talking to a buddy the other day about buying firearms on this sight.

If we are against having to have firearms registered, why in the world, when some of us sell our own personal "long guns" to another member of this forum, do we insist on them signing a bill of sale?

Aren't you in fact keeping the paper trail going for the government. Doing their work for them. I mean think about it. We have the legal right to sale a firearm to someone without there being any record of it. Yet, we make a record ourselves. Your not doing anything illegal by selling that firearm, and not knowing who the person is buying it. Then why would you insist that you now make a record of this.

If we were smart, we would all buy our long guns off each other. Not asking for any bill of sale, or what your name even is. Trade weapons, money, ammo, whatever, and go our separate ways. That way, there is no record of any of the long guns in your possession even belonging to you.

If the cops ever show up and ask you if you own such and such a weapon. You can say "Nope, I sold it. Don't know who the guy was." And guess what? You don't have to tell them what you do have in your house. None of their business.

So, I'm wondering, if we are all against gun registration, why some of us require a bill of sale? Is it really protecting you, or just keeping the registration of firearms going for those in power?

[elementfreak431]

With my bill of sale, its mainly just to make sure the person is a PA resident and that no liability comes back to me.

Say I just sold a long gun to a person. We'll call him Bob. Bob told me that he was a PA resident so that we wouldn't have to go to an FFL for a transfer. Now, Bob is really from the evil communist state of NJ and cannot own the AR 15 I just sold him. He essentially lied to me. Now fast forward a few hours when Bob is driving home. He's in a hurry to get his new baby home so he is speeding. It is at this time that the Gestapo, I mean police, pull him over. They see Bob has a gun case in the back and they immediately search his car even though he said they can't. The police find an evil black rifle. They call who ever they need to call to find out who the previous owner was. (ATF? Im not sure) They find out that Bob purchased the gun from me and they send PA police to my house. I am charged with the sale of an illegal weapon to a "prohibited" person.

This is where a bill of sale comes in handy. I can whip out the bill of sale and show them that Bob signed his name where it said "I am a resident of the great non socialist state of Pennsylvania". It shows that I did not intentionally sell a rifle to a person who could not own it.

Now I'm sure there is some faulty stuff, like the NJ police calling the PA police and what not, but its just a hypothetical scenario. Its proof that I wasn't intentionally breaking the law. Its to make sure that your ass is covered as much as it can be.

[tl_3237]

There's a big difference between 'registration', where the government can ascertain all the firearms an individual owns, and an individual keeping a receipt from a private sale of a firearm.

The potential abuse of a 'registration' is obvious vis-a-vis a confiscation capability afforded the government. In the case of individual receipts it's smart CYA and does not afford the government the same capability because they have no knowledge of the information except during an investigatory trace of an specific firearm.

Suppose for example that your buyer drops the piece at a crime scene and the police trace it to you through a trail of private transactions or you being the original purchaser from an FFL. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to prove that you sold it and to whom not only to remove yourself from the suspect list but also to facilitate identification of the criminal?

Personally I would want that capability and peace of mind provided the information remains under my exclusive control. I don't see the downside.

[West Chester]

If I was the original purchaser of the long arm and my name is on the illegal registration database I will request a bill of sale.

If I acquire the long arm with no illegal registration I will sell it also with no bill of sale yet still checking for a PA LTCF before the transaction.

[NRA Recruiter]

If I acquire the long arm with no illegal registration I will sell it also with no bill of sale yet still checking for a PA LTCF before the transaction.

How about when the original purchaser tells the po-pos that he sold it to you. Now you are a person of interest in the murder investigation. I don't need that drama.

[tcc722]

I do a bill of sale if the long gun was last in my name (if I bought it through an ffl). If I bought it from a private individual, with no paperwork, that's how I sell it. Just to be on the safe side, I like to not have any paper trail end with me.

[Mtbkski]

With my bill of sale, its mainly just to make sure the person is a PA resident and that no liability comes back to me.

Ask to see a valid drivers license or a LTCF. Don't have to scrutinize it. Just see it's from PA.

There's a big difference between 'registration', where the government can ascertain all the firearms an individual owns, and an individual keeping a receipt from a private sale of a firearm.

But is there really. You have kept a paper trail. Just suppose the government shows up to collect all your firearms. And you don't have one they say you should. Are you going to give them the bill of sale, and give this person to those collecting?

Suppose for example that your buyer drops the piece at a crime scene and the police trace it to you through a trail of private transactions or you being the original purchaser from an FFL. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to prove that you sold it and to whom not only to remove yourself from the suspect list but also to facilitate identification of the criminal?

Wouldn't it be nice to just say. Sorry, I sold that a while ago. Don't know who the guy was. Why should it be YOUR job to keep track of who owns that firearm now? You have done nothing illegal. They can't charge you with anything. What you did was totally legal. And chances are more likely that your firearm will never be used illegally anyway.

Personally I would want that capability and peace of mind provided the information remains under my exclusive control. I don't see the downside.

I still wonder if they showed up demanding to know who you sold it to, if you would give the person up. I mean to take the pressure off you. But if you don't know them. What the heck. Let them deal with it.

If you haven't done anything illegal. You haven't done anything wrong. Your against firearms registration. Why would you keep a record, like the government does?

I personally like the idea that I may have a bunch of long guns in my house that the feds have no idea that I have. And more of us should support this idea too if you ask me. But that is just my peace of mind.

[Mtbkski]

I do a bill of sale if the long gun was last in my name (if I bought it through an ffl). If I bought it from a private individual, with no paperwork, that's how I sell it. Just to be on the safe side, I like to not have any paper trail end with me.

Good for the goose, but not for the gander.... Hmmmmm

[Mtbkski]

How about when the original purchaser tells the po-pos that he sold it to you. Now you are a person of interest in the murder investigation. I don't need that drama.

Then your in favor of firearms registration I take it. I mean, your making sure that there is a paper trail, and the person who buys it can be tracked down.

[NRA Recruiter]

Then your in favor of firearms registration I take it. I mean, your making sure that there is a paper trail, and the person who buys it can be tracked down.

If anything can be traced to me, I want evidence that I got rid of it, if I have indeed disposed of it.

If you don't, that's yore thang.