Long gun carry in car - ammo in same locked container OK?

[General Geoff]

I just picked up a Kel-tec Sub2000, and I'm looking into secure ways to keep it in my car. I'm thinking a low-profile lockbox (bolted to the floor pan) under a seat would be ideal in terms of both security and accessibility. However, since the Sub2000 is a long gun, I know it is unlawful to keep it loaded in a vehicle. Is this true even if the weapon is both inoperable (folded) and in a locked container? Would I need to keep the magazines in a separate lockbox or perhaps the glove compartment? Or would having the mag out of the gun but in the same lockbox be sufficient?

[GunLawyer001]

You're probably OK if the magazines are in a separate compartment of the same locked container, but there's no definition of "loaded" that applies to long guns that don't meet the default definition of "firearms" (the 6102 definition of "loaded" only applies to "firearms".)

[AxiTech]

You're probably OK if the magazines are in a separate compartment of the same locked container, but there's no definition of "loaded" that applies to long guns that don't meet the default definition of "firearms" (the 6102 definition of "loaded" only applies to "firearms".)

HUH? Not trying to be a smart alek here, but for some reason I can't wrap my head around the part after the comma. Can you clear that up for me.
By the way, we appreciate the advice you give. It's good to have you on board.

[dunsho]

i think it means you take a chance. i always wonder if ammo in mag = loaded even if mag is not in the gun.

[Deadpan]

HUH? Not trying to be a smart alek here, but for some reason I can't wrap my head around the part after the comma. Can you clear that up for me.
By the way, we appreciate the advice you give. It's good to have you on board.

I think he means that the legal definition of "loaded" specifically applies to weapons fitting the legal definition of "firearm" (i.e. a pistol, revolver, or rifle with a barrel of less than 16", a shotgun with a barrel under 18", or a gun with an OAL under 26"). The way the law is written, there is no definition of "loaded" that applies to long guns.

[GunLawyer001]

I think he means that the legal definition of "loaded" specifically applies to weapons fitting the legal definition of "firearm" (i.e. a pistol, revolver, or rifle with a barrel of less than 16", a shotgun with a barrel under 18", or a gun with an OAL under 26"). The way the law is written, there is no definition of "loaded" that applies to long guns.

Exactly right, there's an undefined term in the statute prohibiting "loaded" guns other than firearms.

The UFA carefully defines the terms "firearm" and "loaded", and in fact the UFA defines the term "firearm" at least a dozen times; sometimes it's limited to handguns and short NFA SBR's and shorty shotguns, sometimes it includes everything that spits bullets using burning powder. The default definition of "firearm" is the one in the 6102 definitions, which is also where the definition of "loaded" is found; but "loaded" only is defined with respect to "firearms" that are handguns and short rifles/shotguns.

It's a little bit like having a statute that says you may not drive near a McZwombly, without ever defining what a "McZwombly" is. The court is left to look at the common definition of the term, which leads to all sorts of mischief.

The statute arbitrarily says that you can have a loaded magazine in a separate compartment of the same container in which you have the "firearm", but you can't have it in the same compartment of that container. I don't think that this is a common understanding of the word "loaded".

[PoconoJo]

The statute arbitrarily says that you can have a loaded magazine in a separate compartment of the same container in which you have the "firearm", but you can't have it in the same compartment of that container. I don't think that this is a common understanding of the word "loaded".

Do you even need a "container"? Could you please clarify that?
Thanks in advance.

[rwilson452]

No, you could have it sitting on the seat. However if your going out of state this doesn't apply.

Do you even need a "container"? Could you please clarify that?
Thanks in advance.

[Hawk]

I think what they are trying to say is that as long as you have some type of "partition" that clearly separates the ammo (or loaded magazine) from the firearm you are good to go. So, if you have a soft carrying case with outside pockets (to place the ammo or mag in) and you place the firearm on the inside of the case, you'll meet the requirements for transportation inside a vehicle.

[General Geoff]

I understand that, but it doesn't really help with secure lockbox storage. The lockboxes i've been looking at that would fit a folded Sub2000, do not have multiple partitions.