Seeking Relief After Childhood 302.

[dmuthle2]

First, allow me to apologize if I put this in the wrong part of the forum, I'm new here. Second, allow me to explain my situation briefly.

On April 25, 2002, I was seeing a quack for some follow-up to a medication change that they had me on. The doctor was grilling me a-la CIA interrogation style, and I threatened to kill myself because I was so stressed out and I wanted to not answer the questions presented to me. Lo and behold, the doctor decided I was in need of "inpatient psychiatric hospitalization for safety to self/others", and filed a 302 application.

I was taken to the local hospital via police cruiser (I willingly went with them, sans handcuffs), for evaluation. At the hospital, there was apparently a person who attempted to explain my rights (I don't remember ever having rights explained to me), and according to the paperwork, the person explaining my rights believed I "did not understand these rights" (which is a checkbox on the 302 app.

A warrant was issued by the county administrator (go figure, they never actually checked A or B on the application, despite it clearly saying check A or B), and I was transported to an "approved facility", allegedly for a period "not to exceed 120 hours"

Upon arrival at the facility, ~25 minutes later, I was examined and determined as "Child is intelligent + articulate, but appears deeply unhappy. Both he + his mother are distrustful of 'experts' + not very cooperative. Past behavior indicates a potential for harming himself or others"

Go figure, I was deeply unhappy after being threatened to be handcuffed, taken from my mother, driven across the state, and now being examined by a random doctor. Also, as background, my mother/I were distrustful of "experts" because these so-called "experts" had put me on some really terrifyingly awful drugs.

The stay at that institution lasted from April 25 til May 6. That is very clearly over 120 hours.

Essentially, I'm currently gathering records right now, prior to hiring a lawyer, and having him petition the courts to do one of two things.
A: have the 302 forcibly expunged, or
B: have the courts do what is within their power under section 6105(f).1, and relieve me of this disablement. I'd prefer the first, because it would be extremely good to never have to think about that terrible time again.

I want to express that at no point did I ever seriously consider taking my life. My stress, and my overreaction was a product of some really awful stuff going on in the home life, and some bad drug reactions. As I got older, and especially now that I've experienced the loss of friends committing suicide, I recognize just how precious human life is, and with absolutely no hesitation, I can say I'm not even remotely a danger to myself or others. Besides... I grew up around guns (never knew I wasn't allowed to grow up around them til I tried to buy one), and my father taught me well when it comes to respecting firearms, their owners, and using them properly.

I didn't attempt to get this fixed til now because no one ever explained when I was released that I would never be able to own, shoot, or even touch a firearm again. In fact, no one ever explained that to my family that I wasn't allowed to possess a firearm at all, under the current law.

I'm also an adult now, and the day I first attempted to purchase my own firearms from a dealer, I got flagged by the PICS system, and I've been trying to investigate it for over a year now, trying to figure out where my records are, and gather them so I can go to court and right this wrong.

So what I'm really asking here (aside from getting this off my chest), is whether anyone has any advice, or other information for one in my situation.

Has anyone experienced the legal system trying to battle an absurd situation such as this? I admit that they were doing their jobs in doing what they did, but sometimes the law is wrong, and I believe this is the case in this instance.

Or if anyone has recommendations for a good gun rights lawyer in PA, I'll take those.

EDIT: I have been wondering also, if I restore my rights to purchase/possess/own a firearm in Pennsylvania but my 302 commitment is NOT expunged, if the applicable Federal law in 18 USC 922, concerning persons not allowed to purchase/own a firearm will still apply to me, thus precluding me from purchasing a firearm even though the Commonwealth of PA says I may. Is that something that is likely to happen? The state says it's okay, but then the Feds say I'm breaking the law, and arrest me?

[t1066]

You are kind of far away, but I'd contact Gunlawyer001 on here and see what he recommends. He has had experience with this type of case.

Good luck!

[SigForLife]

If you only obtain state relief under 6105(f) without expungement or further relief, you will still be prohibited under federal law. I have a client currently in this situation because prior counsel didn't understand what was necessary to fully relieve the disability. You need to obtain expungement. Good counsel will go even further to attempt to ensure that even if expungements are not sufficient in the future, the relief obtained will still cover you.

[spitfiregirl]

Has anyone heard of an attorney in the Erie area familiar with expungements? The closest I found is in Pittsburgh and will charge an extra $1k to come to erie. Also, If NICS replaces PICS, will this have any effect on a person with 302 owning guns? Is federal law prohibiting for a 302?

[SigForLife]

Also, If NICS replaces PICS, will this have any effect on a person with 302 owning guns? Is federal law prohibiting for a 302?

You are currently prohibited under both state and federal law, per ATF's most recent interpretation of Section 302 of the Mental Health and Procedures Act. NICS *could* add additional burdens on being able to obtain relief, even though expungement would no longer be necessary. The NICS Improvement Act, although it allows a state to alleviate the federal disability, requires a plethora of findings, including a character and reputation finding, which is not found in the state relief. This is one of the concerns I have with us changing to NICS.

[dmuthle2]

Necro'ing the he** out of this thread... Because it's worth it.

Decades of long story short... Petition for relief under section 6105(f) in the court of common pleas. Get a good lawyer, who can write a solid petition. Get a psych Eval, make sure enough time has passed and the condition or issue is so remote as to never happen again, and lead a good upstanding life and you throw yourself on the mercy of the court.

My recommendation is to seek a psych Eval from someone who does act 235 evals. I literally started the argument in court that if an act 235 Eval was sufficient for our state police to carry a gun for work every day in life or death situations, it's sufficient to prove I can own one safely

Rights restored at both the state and federal level, as following the NICS improvement amendment act of 08, relief granted by a qualifying state level program also grants relief against federal disability.

Now a proud gun owner, soon to be type 7 FFL, and firearms rights and safety advocate. Go team.

[Walleye Hunter]

Sound like it was a tough battle. Congratulations and thanks for the update, it may help others.

[eatmydust]

Congrats dmuthle2, your experience and sharing is sure to help another PA resident.

[Noah_Zark]

A battle hard fought and won. Congratulations!

Noah