PA Law - Selling Long Guns FTF, How Shortly After Buying?

[cds_arms]

Hello all. I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to elsewhere.

Suppose you buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun, AR-15 receiver, etc, etc), and the first time you shoot it you decide you don't like it. Is there a minimum limit in the timeframe in which you can sale the 'gun'? The ATF would frown on buying guns only to sale off immediately since you don't have a FFL 01 license to 'do business', however what is the legal answer on buying a couple of the same gun, and then selling one to a friend since you don't need the other one like you thought you did?

This question is even harder when it comes to things such as receivers as they aren't a complete gun. Sure you can sale AR lower FTF no problem, but what happens if you say buy a new bacth of lowers so all your AR's match, and then you sale off some of the old/and or new lowers to people?

Where can you draw the line and buy/sale/trade guns without getting in trouble? Not trying to start a business by any means, just trying to answer some questions so that I can enhance my collection.

Any limit on the amount of firearms that can be purchased in some timeframe in PA? Someone once told me 5 guns a week in PA. What happens if you want to buy 6 or 7 AR lowers at a time for a bunch of builds or something?

Link to actual law and good discussion would be extremely helpful!

[bac0nfat]

PA has no limit on the amount of guns you can buy. There is also no "waiting period" before you can sell a gun that you just bought. If you are selling guns in large numbers than the ATF might start asking questions, but there is no state law that you need to worry about. I don't know if there is a federal law regulating the amount of guns you can sell before you need an FFL, but surely someone here does and will chime in. I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you are selling hundreds of guns.

IANAL

[VeritasAequitas]

PA has no limit on the amount of guns you can buy. There is also no "waiting period" before you can sell a gun that you just bought. If you are selling guns in large numbers than the ATF might start asking questions, but there is no state law that you need to worry about.

IANAL

This. If I haven't been contacted by the ATF, then I doubt you will. In 2 weeks I acquired/sold/traded about 10 guns and I've yet to hear anything.

[bac0nfat]

I also noticed you asked for a link to laws. Well here it is:

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...-firearms-act/

That's all of the firearms laws in PA. You can look through the entire thing and wont find anything that limits the number of guns you can buy.

[cds_arms]

Thank you both very much for the input, I appreciate it! I try and stay very well versed with the firearms laws, but in this case I didn't want to just assume that it was fine since I hadn't ever seen otherwise.

What draws the line? At what point is buying/selling guns illegal straw purchases, or illegal arms trading, dealing without a FLL, or 'insert any stupid legal type charge here'..?

What if a person buys a couple extra guns because their friends want one. The person gets them all transferred to him to save on FFL fees and then sales the guns to the friend(s). Does this break the law, or is it all fine since the long guns aren't regulated (unless recipient is unlawful to own them) in PA and/or federally once they are in your posession? Is this technically a straw purchase or something? If so what constitutes this instead of simply selling an item you don't want/need/etc? The prior intent to sale? Sometimes you find good deals on items (and multiples of those items), I would hope it would be legal to buy more and sell what you don't need.

The only thing my FFL stated about this was the implications of manufacturing complete firearms and evading sales tax and federal excise tax on completed guns. For instance if you were building guns it would still be legitimate to sale a person a reciever, and a pile of parts assembled or otherwise since they are not restricted. I'd simply hate for anyone to get a visit from the ATF over things that are 'legal', but 'frowned upon'.

Thanks! =)

[MartinBrody]

What if a person buys a couple extra guns because their friends want one. The person gets them all transferred to him to save on FFL fees and then sales the guns to the friend(s).

I think this breaks the law because you would be saying you are the actual buyer on the federal form when you are not. The only exception to the "are you the actual buyer" question I know of is if you intend to buy it as a gift for someone and the gift transfer follows all laws. The scenario you describe sounds too much like "dealing" in firearms to me. So yes it is the intent to sell them at the time of purchase instead of buying for yourself and deciding to sell them later.

[cds_arms]

I think this breaks the law because you would be saying you are the actual buyer on the federal form when you are not. The only exception to the "are you the actual buyer" question I know of is if you intend to buy it as a gift for someone and the gift transfer follows all laws. The scenario you describe sounds too much like "dealing" in firearms to me. So yes it is the intent to sell them at the time of purchase instead of buying for yourself and deciding to sell them later.

Thanks for the input. The guns are yours, so you are not lying about that fact on the forms. That is mostly for an actual straw purchase where someone goes 'hey man, buy me that gun, here's the cash' and you follow through with it. Laws are always up to interpretation, but I would think it would be hard to prove to that you didn't buy the gun for yourself then sell it off. The point of concern would be when it went from 'selling a gun' to 'dealing'. Not necessarily condoning the behavior, however the laws are there and things are either legal or illegal. If it's legal then do it, if it is illegal then don't.

I am constantly buying/selling/trading AR-15 parts to mod and enhance my guns, so I am certainly curious as to the legalities concerned in the gun 'lowers' themselves. It would seem perfectly legal to dispose of 'sale/trade' off lowers that are no longer needed for a project regardless of when they were bought so long as you owned them lawfully.

[MartinBrody]

I was only referring to buying them for friends to save on ffl fees. Everything else sounds ok to me. I agree with the others, there is no limit as long as you are managing your collection, and not engaging in a business.

[gnbrotz]

I was only referring to buying them for friends to save on ffl fees.

The reason doesn't matter. If you are intentionally buying them for someone else, or with the express intent to sell them to someone else (even if you don't know who that is yet), you commit a crime when you affirm on the form that you are the "true purchaser".

[cds_arms]

I understand what you mean, and I appreciate the input.

I am truly interested however in knowing at what point you are enhancing your collection vs engaging in business according the feds or the state. Buying guns just to sale for profit to everyone you meet sounds like a bad idea without a bonefide FFL01, however the occasion sale to friends seems to be legit unless anyone can state otherwise.